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ron77

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Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny
Right now if a sneaky player opens the GM screen all they see is a map with unlimited sensor range so it doesn't make much difference. But the Lucky Seven prize would be ruined if a sneaky player could open the GM screen and find controls to buff their ship, destroy enemies, add friendlies, move terrain, etc..

Does that make the problem clear?


That sounds to me like the current concept is flawed. To someone aspiring to better themselves and their work, the solution to this can never be "let's not do something because we would have to go back and question our concept." The real question is this: is the GM screen a nifty little toy specifically designed to fit Thom's needs or are you aiming to create a tool with your fan base in mind? With everything else it's clearly the latter, so why not in this case?

It seems to me like there are several solutions to the problem*, all of which would allow limited access to certain controls and their powers while also allowing fans of the game to use the GM mode without having to spend weeks on generating the code to even begin to use it.

* Here are some ideas off the top of my head:
1) You could add a function that required terminals to pull a password set in the mission script and thus restrict access to the GM screen even if players brought their own machines.
2) Make the server pull a password set in the server's ini file that terminals need to input before entering the GM screen. Again, even if players brought their own machines to use as terminals, you would have limited their access to the GM screen.
3) There is already a function in the ini file where you can limit access of specific machines to certain screens only. Adding a toggle in the ini file that would restrict access to the GM screen for all but the terminal run by the GM would be very easy. And let's face it, if you're worried that someone might go into the ini file mid-game to play with that toggle and then restart the game, we're talking truly criminally gifted players. 😃 (Even more so if the Lucky Seven tournament is a closed circuit competition with oversight from organizers.)

Newcommerin

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Reply with quote  #17 
Or limit the GM to just one „console“ like helm, weapons, engeneering?
——-
My wish is not realy scripting. Could there be a file with all the text, so I could make a „german language pack“ for example? That would be awesome!

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcommerin
My wish is not realy scripting. Could there be a file with all the text, so I could make a „german language pack“ for example? That would be awesome!


I've actually tried to do the same. Right now, some language is in the game proper and some variables are drawn from the vesseldata.xml. Because of this, even if you replaced the insults and immunities with their German counterparts, the rest of the textual context would still be in English. For this to work, I think truly all text would have to be imported from an external file. I feel that there is a ton of error potential just waiting to happen when literally anyone could replace individual (or all) lines of text. Nonetheless, I find your idea intriguing.
taranion

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e4mafia
My wish list would include (by no means exhaustive)
- Object oriented 
- Control over every game play variable, stores on the ship(s), whatever isn't currently covered, add that in please.
- Base actions (loading/unloading activities, away teams to the base, etc)
- A "full featured" GM mode for missions, that doesn't need half a million lines of code to add the functionality. Maybe take inspiration from the TSN GM package as a point of comparison. This is less of a scripting request I guess, and more of a general game feature though, I suppose
- Random encounter/event/side mission options, similar to what gets created in the non scripted missions in 2.7. Some way to create a random side mission, every x to y minutes or something like that. Or an option to just "include" random side missions as a single statement in the script setup.
- Side mission types


I totally agree with that.

Some other wishes:
- Options to act on the position of an entity - or an easy way to read an entities position
- Possibilities to present the captain with choices

Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron77
Furthermore, because currently Artemis has no proper modding access, I would love to see a ton (if not all) variables outsourced to an .ini file or something. Essentially, too many things about Artemis are very specific to one universe and are not subject to modding, which is a pity.


Thom has a conversation going with Mark about the needs of modders. I don't do modding so I am not as keenly attuned to those issues.

But you did remind me of a topic that crosses into modding territory: a localization file. Right now Artemis keeps some of its onscreen text in vesseldata.xml where it can be edited, but it also stores a lot of onscreen text in the executable itself. If Artemis stored all its onscreen text in a localization file it would be much easier to translate the game to play in other languages, and for modders to translate the game into other universes. For example, a Star Trek modder might change high density power cells into dilithium crystals and carapaction coils into self-sealing stem bolts.

In our last conversation Thom sounded committed to building the architecture around a localization file. I believe this would be a tremendous boon to modders.

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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron77
That sounds to me like the current concept is flawed. To someone aspiring to better themselves and their work, the solution to this can never be "let's not do something because we would have to go back and question our concept." The real question is this: is the GM screen a nifty little toy specifically designed to fit Thom's needs or are you aiming to create a tool with your fan base in mind? With everything else it's clearly the latter, so why not in this case?


I am sorry if I have been unclear. Thom is questioning every concept in Artemis and trying to make it better. I believe the conceptual problem here is that the current game master logs on as just another player on one of the eight possible bridges. As long as the server does not already have a GM, any player can simply click "Game Master" and they get access to the GM console.

In my opinion it is a great idea for Artemis 3.0 has default GM controls, but doing so means that the GM console needs to be broken out and made special. In Artemis 3.0 the GM should not log on as a member of one of the crews. The GM should be its own special, independent console.

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny
In my opinion it is a great idea for Artemis 3.0 has default GM controls, but doing so means that the GM console needs to be broken out and made special. In Artemis 3.0 the GM should not log on as a member of one of the crews. The GM should be its own special, independent console.


Ah, thank you for clarifying. I'll be looking forward to what 3.0 has to offer. 😉

Also, ever since 2.4 came out, I've been wondering about away teams and ship security. I know it would likely be an additional station with optical similarities to Engineering as far as the ship internals are concerned, but coordinating assault teams to sweep your ship clean of enemy boarding parties and also boarding enemy ships sounds to me like a really cool concept. I like the idea of more in-depth options as to how to deal with enemy ships. Right now, all you need to do is up the damage output of your ship and blast enemies to smithereens. There are no prolonged dog fights with individual ships in the vanilla game. And pirates require more of a hit and run tactic to deal with enemy fleets while extracting tribute from surrendered survivors. Both of these tactics require the job to get done quick. What if your boarding parties could sabotage individual systems? Launch an attack on Engineering and thus lower their available coolant temporarily? Place a bomb in one of their system nodes and take it out? Steal from the cargo bay or the weapons' storage?

In addition to this previous idea, including more targetable systems for the Weapons Officer to aim at would be nice. Right now, most crews I witness ignore the manual aiming ability because it's easier and less stressful to just kill the enemy ship outright.
Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron77


Ah, thank you for clarifying. I'll be looking forward to what 3.0 has to offer. 😉

Also, ever since 2.4 came out, I've been wondering about away teams and ship security. I know it would likely be an additional station with optical similarities to Engineering as far as the ship internals are concerned, but coordinating assault teams to sweep your ship clean of enemy boarding parties and also boarding enemy ships sounds to me like a really cool concept. I like the idea of more in-depth options as to how to deal with enemy ships. Right now, all you need to do is up the damage output of your ship and blast enemies to smithereens. There are no prolonged dog fights with individual ships in the vanilla game. And pirates require more of a hit and run tactic to deal with enemy fleets while extracting tribute from surrendered survivors. Both of these tactics require the job to get done quick. What if your boarding parties could sabotage individual systems? Launch an attack on Engineering and thus lower their available coolant temporarily? Place a bomb in one of their system nodes and take it out? Steal from the cargo bay or the weapons' storage?

In addition to this previous idea, including more targetable systems for the Weapons Officer to aim at would be nice. Right now, most crews I witness ignore the manual aiming ability because it's easier and less stressful to just kill the enemy ship outright.


There is already a mission script which has a saboteur running around your ship, and if the Comms player can figure out where he will strike next they can send Space Marines to apprehend him. It's Paul Rockwell''s script "Here There Be Monsters" released at Artemis Armada III in 2017. I think there is a download link somewhere on these forums, and it will probably run on Artemis 2.6.

For Artemis Armada IV in 2018 Paul wrote a PvP mission in which Comms officers can attempt to hack each other's ships, causing damage. That mission is called "The Arena." I think I posted a link to updated versions of all the Armada IV scripts fairly recently.

Most of your other suggestions are not related to mission scripting. They are good suggestions, though, and I suggest you post them in the Development forums.

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny
Most of your other suggestions are not related to mission scripting. They are good suggestions, though, and I suggest you post them in the Development forums.


From the title of this thread, which is "Scripting Wishlist for Artemis 3.0," I did not deduce that this was only relating to mission scripting. I figured some regular coding and scenario scripts might be involved as well. Which is why I mentioned them.

That said, I don't really do much with missions. With the showcasing format we use in Hamburg, Germany we prefer the scenarios. They fit much better the limitations we have to work with in terms of time slots and space compared to the multitude of players wanting to play.
e4mafia

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Reply with quote  #25 
I'd love to see a simpler way to do side quests via scripting - maybe some base kind of functionality of calling a module to create a side mission object, with properties and common functions to it?
I'd LOVE to see this implemented in some kind of way to simulate hacking or other electronics warfare. I know it can be cobbled together in the current system, but it is really cumbersome. We have to specifically name the ship we want to interact with unless it is currently targeted by weapons. That means I've got to repeat over and over for each potential target in the mission. A better way would be if we could call in as a variable the ship currently selected by science, too. I'd like to be able to interact comms with science on some kind of hacking attack that would damage an enemies systems in some way. With a "roll to hit vs ships/crews armor class" type system. I could also piece that together in the current engine, but again - SUPER - cumbersome. 
Access to more variables and an object based system could give a TON of flexibility on what could be done.

Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e4mafia
I'd love to see a simpler way to do side quests via scripting - maybe some base kind of functionality of calling a module to create a side mission object, with properties and common functions to it?


This is another great suggestion that could go into Artemis 3.0 but could not be introduced at any other time. The side missions involve the "Story Captain" system that Thom built. So does the Biomech lifecycle of birth-eating-maturation-reproduction. I have discussed a desire to use those things in mission scripts but Thom told me he never imagined that mission script writers would want to access the Story Captain system. He originally built it in such a way that makes it virtually impossible.

I will lobby for mission scripts to have access to the story captain system in Artemis 3.0.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e4mafia
I'd LOVE to see this implemented in some kind of way to simulate hacking or other electronics warfare. I know it can be cobbled together in the current system, but it is really cumbersome. We have to specifically name the ship we want to interact with unless it is currently targeted by weapons. That means I've got to repeat over and over for each potential target in the mission. A better way would be if we could call in as a variable the ship currently selected by science, too. I'd like to be able to interact comms with science on some kind of hacking attack that would damage an enemies systems in some way. With a "roll to hit vs ships/crews armor class" type system. I could also piece that together in the current engine, but again - SUPER - cumbersome. 
Access to more variables and an object based system could give a TON of flexibility on what could be done.



I think making mission scripts more object oriented would help a lot. Also the ability of a mission script to spawn a custom control to any arbitrary console would make your hacking attacks more fun for players.

For the record Paul Rockwell wrote hacking attacks into "The Arena" mission script distributed at Artemis Armada IV.

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NoseyNick

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Reply with quote  #27 
Ability to load/save some sort of state in a separate file. Would be useful for "congratulations, you completed the mission in 207 seconds. The high score is 198 seconds", or some level of "save game, resume later", or persistent stock levels between games, or in ongoing multi-day missions "have they previously completed the training mission / unlocked sector 2 yet / retrieved the artifact / opened the portal / collected the medical supplies / killed the ambasador" etc.

Would probably be easiest as "set var defaults", "update vars from file.xml if it exists", and a triggerable event to "write the following keys/values to file.xml"

I've seen it done by "logging" special magic, and then running a wrapper / script afterwards which extracts magic from the logs and inserts it back into a specially-marked block at the top of the main MISS_blah.xml, but that's kinda hacky and relies on the wrapper / script being run when required, and hopefully never breaking your MISS_blah.xml, and hard to reset to "default values" when required.
LawsonThompson

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny
Continuing with game master conundrum . . .

Starting with the earliest days of Artemis, Thom has taken the game to conventions and offered prizes called "Lucky Sevens." If a new crew plays their first Invasion Mode game on difficulty 7 and wins they get a prize. Over the years lots of crews have tried to be Lucky Sevens and a few succeeded and won the prize. Right now if a sneaky player opens the GM screen all they see is a map with unlimited sensor range so it doesn't make much difference. But the Lucky Seven prize would be ruined if a sneaky player could open the GM screen and find controls to buff their ship, destroy enemies, add friendlies, move terrain, etc..

Does that make the problem clear?


Functionality already exists to omit certain buttons from the UI: seems like this could extend to exclude the GM button.

Or am I missing something?


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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawsonThompson


Functionality already exists to omit certain buttons from the UI: seems like this could extend to exclude the GM button.

Or am I missing something?



Maybe, maybe not. The Game Master is a selectable radio button on the console choice screen. If there is a way to shut off parts of that screen I am not aware of it.

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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoseyNick
Ability to load/save some sort of state in a separate file. Would be useful for "congratulations, you completed the mission in 207 seconds. The high score is 198 seconds", or some level of "save game, resume later", or persistent stock levels between games, or in ongoing multi-day missions "have they previously completed the training mission / unlocked sector 2 yet / retrieved the artifact / opened the portal / collected the medical supplies / killed the ambasador" etc.

Would probably be easiest as "set var defaults", "update vars from file.xml if it exists", and a triggerable event to "write the following keys/values to file.xml"

I've seen it done by "logging" special magic, and then running a wrapper / script afterwards which extracts magic from the logs and inserts it back into a specially-marked block at the top of the main MISS_blah.xml, but that's kinda hacky and relies on the wrapper / script being run when required, and hopefully never breaking your MISS_blah.xml, and hard to reset to "default values" when required.


Great idea! It would give players a better experience in difficult missions, and it would allow for one mission to (potentially) affect another!

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