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EricF

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Reply with quote  #1 

With some good luck in a refurb gear auction I've found myself with three LCD projectors, and am considering setting up a more immersive Artemis space with them.

I already have PCs and screens for the consoles, so it seems like a good way to use the projectors would be to take a cue from the flight simulator builders and have Front, Left and Right "windows", showing the view forward and to each side of the ship.

The game engine is capable of this because the main viewscreen can be changed to show cam front, left, right or back. But only one at a time. The "observer" station is also pretty close to what's needed, but it changes its view cinematically, I don't think it can be frozen on one point of view.

Wondering if anyone can think of a way to achieve this.

 

[Artemis] 

EricF

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Reply with quote  #2 

Example of this from a flight simulator (looking at this also makes me realize: this would be awesome for fighters!)

FlightSimScreens.jpg 


NoseyNick

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Reply with quote  #3 
There used to be a 3rd-party program that did this for you, however it hasn't been updated for aaaaaaaaages, Last I checked it was still on protocol version 2.0 or something.

How are your programming skills?
See https://artemis-nerds.github.io/protocol-docs/
Write something that listens on a socket as a fake/proxy server, probably on a different port not 2010
When it gets a connection, connect to the real server (probably on 2010) and pass DEADBEEF packets back and forth cleanly between client and server

EXCEPT https://artemis-nerds.github.io/protocol-docs/#objectupdatepacket packets of type 0x80803df9 "PlayerShip", You'll unfortunately need to parse the messy bitfield stuff, and IF Field 4.4 "Main Screen View" is present, change the corresponding byte to the Port / Starboard values from https://artemis-nerds.github.io/protocol-docs/#enum-main-screen-view

Not sure whether you also want to filter PerspectivePacket Type: 0xf754c8fe:0x12 - Might look odd if you don't, might look even odder if you do. Probably make it optional?

Then modify artemis.ini on the clients for those projectors, change networkPort=2010 to instead point at the ports you chose for your fake server / proxy.

... and enjoy!

Sorry you asked?   [rolleyes] [smile]

I *MIGHT* be talked into writing this hypothetical proxy, but not in the next week or so, and it's likely to be written in Perl, tested on Linux, good chance it will run on Windows Perl but I'm not likely to be able to help with installing, and debugging might be tricky.
NoseyNick

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Reply with quote  #4 
Come to think of it, Starry already has a proxy, written in LUA if I recall right, can be compiled for Linux OR Windows, doesn't do the above "Main Screen View" filter / modification as far as I know, does a bunch of other things, but you might be able to talk him into adding it as a feature request?   [idea]
User McUser

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Reply with quote  #5 
I made a node.js program that can do this, however I haven't worked on it for some time now so not sure if it works with the most current version of Artemis. (Last updated was in 2017)

Give it a try and if it doesn't work, let me know and I will fix it. You can get it here: https://github.com/UserMcUser/node-MVM
LawsonThompson

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Reply with quote  #6 
If you get a modern GPU supporting AMD Eyefinity or nVidia Surround, you can chain all 3 projectors into a single server. I've done this with Elite Dangerous, running it across 3 monitors at 1080p each.

Once configured, these technologies create what games think is a single 5760x1080 monitor. I've run Artemis like this just for testing, and it worked.

I don't have a recording of Artemis like that, but here's what it does for Elite Dangerous:





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ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #7 

Yep, that was going to be my suggestion. Run a Mainscreen that is 3 times the width of standard resolution, and it will automatically extend the arc of view to cover the left and right sides. All you have to do is angle your left and right screens, or "bend" your mainscreen into an arc. (i.e. with a projector) IIRC, Artemis is designed to do this automatically, there is no need for special add-ons.

The only catch is that you have to hold the vertical resolution constant. 2400x600, 3072x786, or 5760x1080, any such resolution will give you the result you want.

Somewhere around here, I think I did the calculations involved, and figured out at what point you would be able to see the view behind the ship. 😃

By the way, here's the link for Mainscreen View Manager/MVM here on the forum: https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/mvm-mainscreen-view-manager-7470121 As noted, it is somewhat out of date so it may no longer work.

Also, here's my post on the calculations: https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/mainscreen-view-angle-9614260?pid=1302842904 My conclusion was 3 5:3 or 16:9 monitors side by side would cover somewhere between 180 and 210 degrees in an arc in front of the ship. So you can clearly use those monitors as left, center and right, although the transition at the edges of the monitors might require some creative angling.

EricF

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Reply with quote  #8 

OK, Interesting that Artemis has been designed to treat an ultrawide front cam view as a "panorama" instead of simply a front view that extends further to each side. That makes this considerably easier! In some ways the proxy approach is possibly still preferable though, especially since it's easy for several stations to click the wrong thing and change the main-screen view in a way that would mess up immersion. So, I'll experiment with both approaches. 

Thank you everyone for their replies! I'm headed away from home for a few days now so earliest I'd be able to experiment with this would be first week of November, I'll post again with some results.

(It seems to me that someday we should request that this be incorporated into the "observer" station in the main program: it can do the cinematic thing it does now by default, but it could also have the same control pad on it as the main screen view, to lock the view to one specific perspective. This would be useful for bridge builders, but also for streamers!)
 

EricF

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Reply with quote  #9 

Here's a video of what it looks like spanning the server "Main" screen across three 16:9 monitors, spanning using the NVidia tool on a 1050ti graphics card: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPqe4tGnx72lA5bvr7I_Etiid_S-5Z94-d2dRdG 

It definitely gives you a panoramic view but field of view is maybe a smidge shy of 180 degrees, which confirms your post ryleyra. Very wide, like sitting in a bay window (or ISS copula) sticking out the front of the ship. But the side monitors are not looking squarely "left" and "right" since that really requires more than a 180 degree field of view.  If you fly past a station so that you know it's directly to your left, you can't look at the left monitor and see it the way looking out a porthole on the side of the ship would allow.  So I think to really make this three-monitor setup work well with monitors placed front, left and right in a rectangular room, the User McUser approach is going to work better. 

I'll try that next but I need more computers! Working on that... 

 

 

Angel of Rust

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Reply with quote  #10 
The link did not work for me, but it sounds awesome!
EricF

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Reply with quote  #11 

Ah sorry about that, here's a working video link showing the Artemis server (Main screen) spanned across three 16:9 monitors.  



I'm realizing now that Nvidia's bezel correction might allow for an even wider field of view, essentially allowing "Front", "Left" and "Right" from a single graphics card across 270 degrees.  Experimenting with that now. 

Angel of Rust

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Reply with quote  #12 
That's a great proof-of-concept. I'm imagining what a wrap-around bridge would feel like. Definitely ups the immersion factor. (would also solve the problem of weapons not being able to interpret the random gestures of the captain to objects off-screen) [tongue]
EricF

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Reply with quote  #13 
It would be really fantastic if the "observer" station could be configured with the same "Cam" view controller that exists now for the main screen, instead of automatically doing the cinematic changes it does now. This would make it easy to set up Front, Left, and Right "windows" out of the ship which could feel very immersive. And it wouldn't be affected by weapons and helm tinkering with the viewscreen controls.  

Perhaps we could even specify field of view, camera rotation, and camera position aft/stern as some flight simulators allow you to do. Then you could set up a screen for each "porthole" on the ship. Together with some of your control panels and a WHOLE BUNCH of LCD screens we could build a whole spaceship @Angel of Rust !
Angel of Rust

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF
It would be really fantastic if the "observer" station could be configured with the same "Cam" view controller that exists now for the main screen, instead of automatically doing the cinematic changes it does now. This would make it easy to set up Front, Left, and Right "windows" out of the ship which could feel very immersive. And it wouldn't be affected by weapons and helm tinkering with the viewscreen controls.  

Perhaps we could even specify field of view, camera rotation, and camera position aft/stern as some flight simulators allow you to do. Then you could set up a screen for each "porthole" on the ship. Together with some of your control panels and a WHOLE BUNCH of LCD screens we could build a whole spaceship @Angel of Rust !


Sounds like fun! If going the custom control panel route, it is easy to lock out the camera controls if a static viewscreen is desired.
EricF

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Reply with quote  #15 
Experimented with bezel correction to create a virtual surround monitor with a resolution of 5040x1024 pixels! However this confirms that this approach definitely won't work: the game engine is not creating a 2D-projected "panorama" that shows a wide and wider field of view. Rather, it gives a field of view a bit less than 180 degrees and then stretches the image horizontally at the extremities. Kind of a like a very extreme rectilinear camera lens would do. A very very wide monitor doesn't let you see more, it just increases the amount of distortion. 

You can really see this effect in this video: a round black hold becomes an oval on the side monitors. You're not looking out the side of the ship, you're looking at a distorted view from the front.  So, the graphics card scanning approach is a dead end for adding true "Left" and "Right" windows as imagined in the original post. 




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