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Posts: 127
Reply with quote  #1 
So, somewhere Mark Bell said that "sides" 0, 7 and 8 can be player sides. I think he mentioned problems or possibly crashes if player sides were associated with any other numbers.

Just out of curiosity:
  • Does side value 1 always have to be friendly?
  • If I want to have two player sides for a mod, and I make the first side value 0 and the second side value 1, would the game crash?
  • What if I make the second side value 7, would I have to leave side value 8 unassigned?
  • What if I want more than three player sides, is this at all possible and what side value would it have to be?
The way I understand side values in conjuction with keyes, you can make any side be anything, as long as you have at least one player race, at least one friendly, at least one standard enemy, and at least one monster side. From your experience in modding, what can you add?

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Posts: 1,865
Reply with quote  #2 
I don't think 7 and 8 specifically have to be player sides - I think 0 does, and the player ship unique IDs need to be sequential regardless of side, but I suspect you could monkey with it a fair bit.  Easiest thing would be to try it!  Take the stock game, change a few side values, and see what happens.
Note - this is in no way intended to be an official position of Thom or Artemis, as I am not an official representative of the creator or game.

Posts: 2,890
Reply with quote  #3 
It's my understanding that other than side (race) 0 having to be a player side, there are no restrictions about which race ID can be assigned to players, enemies or friendlies. The corresponding key determines that. Sides 7 and 8 are defined as the Ximni and Pirate simply because they were added by Thom after sides 0 through 6 had already been created in earlier versions of Artemis.

Thom could have renumbered the sides to put the player sides first, but that would have meant even more incompatibility issues with the scripting system, not to mention that if any reference to race in vesselData didn't get properly updated, it would break. I don't think anyone has every tried to renumber the races in vesselData, but it should work if done properly.

I see no problem with putting all your player races first, if you're starting from scratch.

As Mark said, I think the main gotcha is that your player ship IDs have to be sequential, with no gaps.

Note: As I hinted in the first paragraph, when I talk about "side" above, I'm actually talking about "race". The value set with sideValue in scripts has NOTHING to do with the race ID. Where sideValue is concerned, the enemies are side 1 and the player side is side *2*. Side 0 does not exist. Sides 3 and up are additional player or AI sides, where the AI will attack anyone from any other side.

The source of your confusion may be the fact that "side" is often used to refer to race or faction, when in fact it refers to player/friendly and enemy.
Mike Substelny

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Posts: 2,197
Reply with quote  #4 
Are you asking about sideValues? And do you mean in Siege Mode or in mission scripts?

According to the documentation sideValues can be 0-31, with sideValue=0 meaning "no side."

In the default single player ship game sideValue = 1 is enemy and sideValue = 2 is friendly. Once you add more PvP sides it gets more complicated.

The game is currently limited to 8 player ships, so it's hard to imagine why you would need more than 8 sides. Nevertheless there are plenty of spare sideValues available in case you are writing a really complicated mission script.

At Artemis Armada III we ran into strange behavior with a mission script that had limited sensor range and player ships with three different sideValues. Visibility became unpredictable and the player science officers could often see things they were not supposed to see, presumable by looking through the sensors of other player ships with different sideValues.

"The Admiralty had demanded six ships; the economists offered four; and we finally compromised on eight."
- Winston Churchill
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