Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Fish Evans

Registered:
Posts: 361
Reply with quote  #1 
Rotateing Shield Harmonic

On trigger would retune the shields of the ship randomly resulting in a new weakest frequncy

we have tried this in some of our GM missions with the harmonic changeing every 5-10 seconds requireing Sci to read them out regualy
Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #2 
+1 from me!
__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #3 
Actually, I would much prefer for this to be a universal mechanism. It never occurred to me to try this out in scripted missions, but I imagine it makes Science much more active.

Now, an elite ability could be to rotate shield frequencies more often, like after every two or three shots. Science would have to be calling out the weakest shield frequency constantly.

I prefer the idea that Science would have to re-scan after every shield rotation, otherwise the Captain can just call out the changes. It would be too much to have to re-scan every two or three seconds for the elite version, though. Maybe the normal shield rotation requires a re-scan, but the elite ability just rotates the frequency?
Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
I prefer the idea that Science would have to re-scan after every shield rotation, otherwise the Captain can just call out the changes.


That is down to your crew and captain though. Personally, I would leave it to a science officer to call out the frequencies whilst I am captain for two reasons -
1. I am too busy watching the overall situation of the map/ combat.
2. I give that job to science to do, so need to let them do it.

It is more about learning to be a good captain, rather than putting in the barrier to stop the captain calling out frequencies - something I think this game is rather good at promoting.

__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Wise

That is down to your crew and captain though. Personally, I would leave it to a science officer to call out the frequencies whilst I am captain for two reasons -
1. I am too busy watching the overall situation of the map/ combat.
2. I give that job to science to do, so need to let them do it.

It is more about learning to be a good captain, rather than putting in the barrier to stop the captain calling out frequencies - something I think this game is rather good at promoting.


Let me be clear - my suggestion has always been for shield frequencies to rotate at a set rate, say every ten minutes, requiring Science to rescan the enemy ship to update the frequency display. After that, for the next ten minutes, the Captain can call out the shield frequencies all he wants. The point is, ONLY SCIENCE can make that rescan in the first place.

This suggestion sounds like a variation on that theme, with only particular Skaraan ships getting the ability to rotate shield frequency. But note Fish Evans says this "requires Sci to read them out regularly", but in fact he's only requiring Sci or the CM to read the frequencies out every 5-10 seconds. Without the step of having to rescan the ship, he's not achieving the intention of giving Sci something to do -- assuming that was his intention.

Actually, it would be possible to emulate this by destroying the Skaraan every 20-30 seconds (to give Science time to rescan) and recreating it with the same shield and hull damage level as the previous. If it's still in visual range it would automatically be scanned, but the shield frequency data (and taunts) would be lost. I think if shield frequency is rotating that fast, though, the ship should stay scanned, so there doesn't have to be a delay while Sci finishes the scan.

Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Fish Evans says this "requires Sci to read them out regularly", but in fact he's only requiring Sci or the CM to read the frequencies out every 5-10 seconds. Without the step of having to rescan the ship, he's not achieving the intention of giving Sci something to do -- assuming that was his intention.


It would give more of a reason to check the information provided by the readout of the ship on the science/captain's map screen. Giving science more to do then is actually down to the captain and the player acting in the role of science to determine. Providing changing information gives the players a way to potentially increase the importance/ active participation of the player responsible for monitoring that information. Whether that potential is realised is up to the team playing the game.

With the idea of having to rescan continually; the captain can still readout the frequencies, potentially turning the science role into a continous cycle of 'click, scan, repeat'. A lot of people say once everything is scanned, there isnt much else for science to do. Having to rescan things over and over might not have the desired effect. Simply having frequencies rotate may. The science role would shift from scanning to continual reporting... depending on how your team/ captain play the game.

__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Wise
Simply having frequencies rotate may. The science role would shift from scanning to continual reporting... depending on how your team/ captain play the game.


Except the Science role DOESN'T shift from scanning to continual reporting -- unless your team/captain decide to play the game that way.

That's like adding a new console with the ability to fire torpedoes, and Weapons complains they have nothing to do. So you add another torpedo type and say, "There, we've added something else for Weapons to do."

I realize that making Science's need to scan recur periodically does not solve the problem of Science having nothing to do but scan, but it DOES solve the problem of Science having nothing to do once everything has been scanned.
Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #8 
I'd also note, most enemies are dead within 10 minutes in the games I have played. The average time from my experience of playing has been 30 minute games. This seems to be the timeframe used at demo games too (based on conversations I have read on these forums). In this time, shields would cycle once or twice max, depending on what time you conducted the first scan of the enemy. A shorter timeframe (every minute or so) would mean too much re-scanning and a longer timeframe, too little to have any impact. Having them cycle and not have to rescan on the otherhand would keep the information changing and require someone to continually check and update the relevent players. Technically, that should be the science officer.
__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Wise
I'd also note, most enemies are dead within 10 minutes in the games I have played. The average time from my experience of playing has been 30 minute games. This seems to be the timeframe used at demo games too (based on conversations I have read on these forums). In this time, shields would cycle once or twice max, depending on what time you conducted the first scan of the enemy. A shorter timeframe (every minute or so) would mean too much re-scanning and a longer timeframe, too little to have any impact. Having them cycle and not have to rescan on the otherhand would keep the information changing and require someone to continually check and update the relevent players. Technically, that should be the science officer.


I used the example of the generation rate of Nukes as an example. It means Science will have to renew the "lock on" of every enemy at least three times during a 30 minute game, or possibly, wait until about to enter combat with the enemy group to renew the shield frequency scan. (This assumes scanning the ship resets its timer to 10 minutes instead of all ships resetting on the same 10 minute timer)

Three minutes (generation rate of a Homing) or five minutes (generation rate of a ECM) could be good options as well. It would probably take some playtesting to find out the best rate. Scaraans with the elite ability could shield rotate on a 1 minute or 3 minute timer, for a longer timer normally. It depends on if what you are going for is "constantly call out changes" or "constantly give Science something to do". I like the idea of the universal rotation to involve Science, and the elite ability to encourage constant updates.

Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Except the Science role DOESN'T shift from scanning to continual reporting -- unless your team/captain decide to play the game that way.


You are right. That is where the issue lies though... how the players play the game. Or put in a different way, how the team interact and share the responsibilities out. If the captain makes the science role about scanning only, thats what they will do. If it is about scanning then reporting the relevent information, they will do that instead. Why as captain is a player reporting frequencies? To me it is because they don't know how to lead the team and let the members get on with their job. As captain, I appoint a science officer to use the science console and then keep everyone updated with the relevant information. I give them that job,they do that job. I don't read frequencies because I shouldn't have to.

__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #11 
I think this has been a good debate. I have enjoyed exchanging opinions and hope you've not taken any offense!

To summarise, +1 for rotation. It would mean having to recheck the ship for updated intel information on shield frequencies.

I disagree with having to rescan as an addition as it may be something that becomes tedious and repetative.

__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Wise
Why as captain is a player reporting frequencies? To me it is because they don't know how to lead the team and let the members get on with their job. As captain, I appoint a science officer to use the science console and then keep everyone updated with the relevant information. I give them that job,they do that job. I don't read frequencies because I shouldn't have to.


Keep in mind that the Captain's Map is the only console that has so much overlap with another console. Helm and Weapons overlap in control of the Mainscreen and shields, but their primary functions are all completely different from each other. Engineering and Comms don't have any functions that overlap with any other consoles. One could say that the LRS tab gives all consoles the ability to view the whole sector and locate objects within it, but I would argue that that's actually NOT a role of the Science console, it's merely a side effect of how the console is designed.

Yet the only function Science has that is completely unique is the ability to scan. And the Captain's Map did not have to be designed with the ability to read shield frequencies, it merely WAS designed that way. The ability to read shield frequencies is not necessary in order to fulfill the role of the Captain. In fact, one could say the role of the Captain's Map is not the same as that of the Captain, and what role it does have is not very well defined. It is assumed that it is intended to coordinate and strategize the attack of a ship or multiple ships, since that is what the equivalent console in Battlestar Galactica was used for, but it isn't a standard crew console like the main five.

The real question is, when an enemy changes shield frequencies, or even potentially when a rival PvP ship changes shield frequencies, does the ship's computer respond immediately, rescanning the target and calculating the new frequencies automatically, or does a crew member have to respond to the change and order another scan of the enemy ship? The question is, once you scan a ship, do you know everything about it, forever, or do you have to keep scanning it in order to keep your information up to date? I'm assuming that at least you have to keep track of its movements as it changes location. Presumably that's a passive function that doesn't need to be continually monitored by a crew member and reported to the Captain -- or maybe it isn't.

The whole point of my new post on the Sweep Arm is to submit an idea that actually doesn't need to keep information from the Captain that the Science officer has, and yet still deal with this issue. Oh, and no offense taken. [biggrin]
mattssheep4

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 47
Reply with quote  #13 
I don't know how practical/easy it would be to implement, but what if "re-scanning" a ship only takes a second or less, instead of the whole time it takes to do primary and secondary scans? That might alleviate the repetitive nature of science's job for scanning, but also require them to be alert as to when a ship needs another scan.
__________________

Commander Matthew Vaj

Commanding Officer, TSN Viper, 2nd Space Fleet, 4th Light Division

TSN RP Community - Listen to our Fleet News Service!

Intelligence Officer of the Cygnus Campaign

ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattssheep4
I don't know how practical/easy it would be to implement, but what if "re-scanning" a ship only takes a second or less, instead of the whole time it takes to do primary and secondary scans? That might alleviate the repetitive nature of science's job for scanning, but also require them to be alert as to when a ship needs another scan.


I would say that that could be a practical suggestion for the case where a ship has already been scanned, and only the shield frequency has been lost. It would actually make more sense for the scan to not take as long.

In visualizing the idea, I pictured the shield indicators going red, and a label such as "rotating" appearing underneath. That would cue the Science officer that he needed to scan the shield frequency again. And shields could rotate often if it doesn't take as long.

Of course, there's no way to simulate that currently with a script to test the viability of the idea. As for whether or not it would be easy, there is already an upgrade that makes scanning instantaneous. I'm not going to speculate on how easy it would be, but Thom could alter that code to make the scan instant if the Lateral Scanners upgrade is going OR if the shield frequencies have rotated.

Of course, Thom will have to implement it so that rotating shield frequencies allows the ship to be scanned again. Right now, scan is disabled if a ship has been scanned twice. So again, scan would have to be enabled if a ship has not been scanned twice OR if the shield frequencies have rotated.

In my head it sounds easy, but I know how hard something easy can turn out to be once you get into the code. [biggrin]

Swede

Registered:
Posts: 56
Reply with quote  #15 
Big thumbs up for rotation
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.