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So, as I play more of 2.3.0,  I was wondering if anyone has found the Speed coefficient change for the various difficulties?  For Example, at Level 7 the enemies are actually moving 60% faster than they were in 2.2.0 or something like that.  Also, can someone confirm that I have the beam strength formula correct?  It appears the formula is that the enemy beams do difficulty levels damage for levels 1-7, and then cap at 7 for 8-11.  The cap also seems to be changeable in the Artemis.ini file (up to 10 for Level 10). 

Also on a side note, a happy side effect  (IMO) of the faster enemies is the standard game time that we play per mission has been reduced quite a bit (we were average 30-40 minute level 10 missions and now we average 15-25 minute level 9 missions).   I will attribute this to the less time we spend traveling, because the enemies are doing that for us now.  

notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #2 
That was actually an explicit change of the new version of artemis. After lvl 5 (I believe) enemy ships get incrementaly faster and I believe they do more damage than they used to, meanjng the old coefficient is wrong, as well as friendly ships doing less damage incrementally.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat
That was actually an explicit change of the new version of artemis. After lvl 5 (I believe) enemy ships get incrementaly faster and I believe they do more damage than they used to, meanjng the old coefficient is wrong, as well as friendly ships doing less damage incrementally.


Correct, I am curious if anyone has found the formula for how much faster than enemy gets per increase in difficulty level.  For example, does the formula make the enemies 20% faster for every increase in difficulty level?
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #4 
I have confirmed that all enemy ships do damage equal to their base damage times the difficulty level, all the way up to difficulty 10. At difficulty 11 they do 15 times their base damage. That means a Kralien ship (all of them) do 1-10 damage based on difficulty up to 10, and 15 damage at difficulty 11.

The damage cap of 7 in the artemis.ini file does not cap the increase due to difficulty, and is instead a cap on base damage. If you go into the vesselData file and set base damage for a Kralien to 10.0, for instance, instead of 1.0, they will only do 7-70 damage and 105 damage at 15, not 10-100 damage and 150.

Honestly, no enemy ship does that much damage and I don't know why that cap is so high. It could be as low as 3 and not change anything. The friendly ship cap is 3, which is the new base damage for friendly ships. (It was 7) The good news is, this means friendly ships are not capped at difficulty 5 (or 3) either; their damage goes all the way up to 45 at diff 11. (So they actually do MORE damage at diff 11 than they used to do in Artemis 2.2)

The speed increase is 40% per difficulty level from 6 to 11. So it is 300% at difficulty 10 and 340% (possibly 350%) at 11.

I have updated the artemis wiki to reflect this, if you want to check it out. [smile] Correction, I have updated the difficulty page. I still have to update the individual ships with their max damage, although I have sort of fixed the friendly ships. (Their damage is correct for diff 1-5, but I still assumed they capped at 5 when I updated it) I'll do that, but it will take a while.

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thank you so much that is very helpful and I will check out the Wiki. Also, is this translate over to scripted missions as well?  The speed and beam strength will increase with difficulty level?
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #6 
Yes. In fact most of my testing was in the Module_3_bases script since it makes it so easy to set up one on one battles against selected ships. I confirmed it was the same in regular game modes, though. In fact, I also confirmed that the damage cap in artemis.ini is NOT applied in PvP mode. This confuses me yet again, as I would think the player ships being used as NPCs in PvP mode would be the perfect place to use the enemy or neutral ship cap, but it isn't used! Player ships as NPCs do 180 damage at difficulty 15! [biggrin] Hopefully this is just an oversight and Thom will fix it in the next release.

I'll add it was a little difficult to measure the speed increase, but I was curious enough to want to calculate it exactly. I actually measured the speed of ally ships, since I didn't have to worry about them attacking me. I set them on a course, and then measured the amount of Engineering power that was required for the Light Cruiser to match their speed. At difficulties 10 and 15 I actually had to raise the speed of a Light Cruiser to 0.9 in the VesselData so I had a chance of keeping up with them. [biggrin] (I could have used a Scout, but using a speed of 0.9 instead of 0.8 made the numbers come out even)

Anyway, the results are uncertain enough that as I said, difficulty 15 could be 350% instead of 340%. I feel that difficulty 10 is 300% because that is an even number, though, and 40% per level comes out to 300%. So your mileage may vary, but I think 40% was the intention.

notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch


Correct, I am curious if anyone has found the formula for how much faster than enemy gets per increase in difficulty level.  For example, does the formula make the enemies 20% faster for every increase in difficulty level?



Ah. Sorry about that.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat
Ah. Sorry about that.

It's cool.  No worries.
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #9 
I've just noted a couple of things while updating the wiki.

First, I never really tested if maneuvering speed has increased for enemy ships, or if it is the same amount as the impulse speed. I assume it is, simply because it's consistent, but that's kind of a difficult thing to test. (Although an Arvonian fighter should be able to spin around at the same rate as a TSN fighter at difficulty 10)

My second thought is, if Skaraans move at three times the rate at difficulty 10, does this effect their Warp speed as well? I would assume it does, since the simplest way for Thom to implement that would be to simply multiply the ship's topspeed by whatever the factor is (3.0 for diff 10) when creating the ship. It would be somewhat difficult to keep the topspeed at its original level, and perform the calculation when moving the ship. (Which would allow him to skip that factor when moving at Warp)

If the former, which I expect, then Skaraans are no longer limited to Warp 1. Their top speed is in fact Warp 4, relative to a Light Cruiser. Relative to a Scout, which they have the same base speed as, their top speed is Warp 3.

The reason I point this out is, most likely, there has been no change to Jump range. Of course, a Skaraan will move three times faster between jumps, so likely it will still move quite a bit faster than it did before. Still, it's possible Warp driven Skaraans may get to your bases a lot quicker than any other enemies.
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Reply with quote  #10 
That is crazy awesome, and just a wee bit scary.  The Eastern Front (tuesday night online artemis group) has played alot of level 9 games with multiple player ship with the new version, and we geneally incurr more casulaties(loss of friendly ships and bases) then we use to playing version 2.2 at level 10.  Enemies at 260% speed, and 180% beams is indeed brutal for a level 9 game.  But in the fun way.  [smile]
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #11 
I need to check if the difficulty scaling stacks with specified configuration increases, or if they're mutually exclusive, like the increase in speed and shield strength in Co-Op mode. I want to say it isn't, because Co-Op increases fire rate, not damage, and difficulty raises damage, but the only reason I haven't checked is because I keep forgetting.

In other words, is 300% speed at difficulty 10 really 900% speed? [biggrin]
Switch

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Reply with quote  #12 
Another thing I forgot to ask.  Do we know why these difficulty changes were made?
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #13 
See this thread: http://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/what-i-know-about-the-next-artemis-release-7859609?trail=15

I don't know if there was anything WRONG, per se, it's just that Thom was not expecting elite, experienced crews to be able to beat difficulties 10 and 11 so easily and with such... *ahem*... "imaginative" tactics. As Mike said in that thread, difficulty 10 should be a real challenge even for the most seasoned crews, and 11 should be impossible. Players being able to clear them with a Scout is not the intention. [biggrin]

I don't know that the speed increase was needed on top of the damage cap at difficulty 5 being removed, but there is no question that the speed increase has made the game more challenging. As has the reduction in ally ship damage. I'll also note that in that thread Mike notes that "dilapidated" ships have been removed from Invasion modes. I never did test that, although I'm pretty sure it was removed.

Also, I never found out what became of taunted ships flying into hazards. Thom could have turned on pathing to make them avoid hazards when taunted, or made use of my suggestion to turn on pathing after a certain distance.
Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryleyra
Also, I never found out what became of taunted ships flying into hazards. Thom could have turned on pathing to make them avoid hazards when taunted, or made use of my suggestion to turn on pathing after a certain distance.


I believe that taunted ships do not path.

Another important change was to the tactic of monster baiting. Has anyone noticed that change? You cannot use a monster to kill limitless enemies anymore. This is the case at all difficulty levels.

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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #15 
That was something we notiv0ced in 2.2. Space monsters would break off or stop following in their own.....also would occasionally make a b line to the nearest black hole [biggrin]



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