Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Note: This topic is locked. No new replies will be accepted.


Reply
  Author   Comment  
zorilya

Registered:
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #1 
I feel like it has been so many version updates since there was any attempt at a pass on the documentation... the mission-file-docs don't seem to reflect a lot of the back end changes that were made even as far back as 2.1. 

Could we have a little more information on new things like this new SPCL_AI block that seems to have replaced Elite_AI block. I have no idea what to feed it and how or if it differs from the Elite_AI block. This would really help when trying to diagnose why ships seem to be going in circles on the client but not on the server.

There are more examples like side_value, which is documented as being able to be set from 0 - 2 but in fact can be set from 1 to something like 32 and 0 actually crashes the game.

So is there any chance of a pass at documentation please?

Thanks
     zorilya
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,009
Reply with quote  #2 
Actually, I was noticing that the documentation does not describe the use of the new "player_slot" feature, so I was thinking of giving it a once-over myself and posting the edited version here. We probably also really need better documentation of scripting on the Artemis wiki.

I will not that the vesselData race tag "elite" has changed to "hasspecials", so I would say that the "SPCL_AI" block is probably just a rename of the "Elite_AI" block, and it is identical otherwise. I don't see any reason why it would be different.
zorilya

Registered:
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #3 
The property "EliteAbilityState" seems to no long function with this block so i think there is a change more than just the name.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,009
Reply with quote  #4 
Try SpecialAbilityState or SpclAbilityState.
zorilya

Registered:
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #5 
Sure I could, and will try that... but it's not really the point now is it.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,009
Reply with quote  #6 
Do you want help with your question, or are you just here to complain? Because if it is the latter, there is no point in my participating in the thread.
zorilya

Registered:
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #7 
My question was

"So is there any chance of a pass at documentation please?"

I used the example that you answered to highlight the necessity for a pass on the documentation.

So yes if you could answer my question It would be appreciated by more than just me I'm sure.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,009
Reply with quote  #8 
That's just what I mean. I can't answer your question. If your point, as you say, is that Thom's documentation is incomplete, and he should drop everything else and concentrate solely on that until he documents everything that he has failed to document since starting work on the game, then your question is directed to Thom. He's the only one that can answer you. No one else here has any say in that at all.

Everyone in this community is well aware that Thom's documentation is not always complete. We are all aware that we must do some research and experimentation to see how the game works. Even the community's documentation is not complete. None of us have bothered to detail everything. And Artemis 2.4 is new to us.

In my initial post I pointed out that I am considering updating the mission scripting document myself, since I noticed some things that Thom left out. I also mentioned that it would probably be a good idea for the scripting guides on the wiki to be updated and fleshed out, and I might do that myself, too, since I'm currently updating the wiki. So if your question is, "Is there any chance of YOU making a pass at the documentation", then I've already said yes, I'll look into it.

If your question is, "Is there any chance of THOM making a pass at the documentation", then I have no answer. No one can say that but Thom. If you want to know my personal feeling on the question, then no, I do not feel that there is any chance at Thom making a pass at the documentation until Artemis 2.5. He has never released updated documentation between versions before. But that's just my feeling.
zorilya

Registered:
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #9 
My understanding was that the purpose of this board was to server as a community hub that Thom interacts with... this idea has been gleaned by a bunch of posts that cite information from Thom and interactions with him. 

With that being said my question was directed at Thom since this is his development cycle and for those who communicate with him to pass the info on if they could if he doesn't get to it him self. 

I did not say he should drop everything but merely hoped that by mentioning it, it might make him think more of the importance of a unsable and understandbale product for his community.

Lastly... don't take things so personally... I don't know you and you don't know me and a community is just a bunch of people throwing out ideas and thoughts towards a common goal, making this game better. If there is anyone who we would be happy with or pissed off at it's the developer... If you, of you own volition, have involved yourself in this project to such an extent where you feel like any criticism of it is a personal dig (which it certainly seems like) then i have some advice if you would be so open minded as to consider it.

First take a break... your apparent short fuse lets me know that your too close to this... this is not your game and as far as I have heard (correct me if i'm wrong) Thom is the kinda guy who would like to keep it that way. Not the way I would expect a product to reach it's best state but hey... that's just me.

Second. If you have this much energy to put into something but are not as I suspect getting into the development cycle as much as would satisfy... isn't there another project you can really sink your teeth into? A little open source,community contributed thing like Empty epsilon? 

I could be way out of the park here and if so obviously ignore it but jeez man lighten up and don't be so quick to shut down criticism if it is directed at you (which this wasn't). It's a reliable mechanism through which, if we pay attention, we can learn and grow.

Off topic I know but hey.

Have fun
     zorilya
MarkBell

Avatar / Picture

Administrator
Registered:
Posts: 1,955
Reply with quote  #10 
Admin mode - Cool off.  Your post wasn't directed at Thom, so other folks responding to it isn't unreasonable.
__________________
Note - this is in no way intended to be an official position of Thom or Artemis, as I am not an official representative of the creator or game.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,009
Reply with quote  #11 
This forum is for discussion of mission scripting. It is NOT for directing messages at Thom, complaining about his programming or documentation practice, or suggesting what he should do. I suggest that you take such message to PMs. In fact, Thom does NOT frequent this forum, and he very rarely checks his PMs, so instead I would suggest sending a PM to Mike Substelny.

However, I feel certain that Mike will tell you what I have already told you. Thom does not have time to take away from further development of the game, particularly to document features that he has already publically commented on in the forums, like the changes to player ship commands. Thom relies on the community to keep track of the changes to the game and capture all of the details that he may have missed. If you have any questions or need help with any aspect of the game, you should direct your questions to the forums. Someone will answer your questions and provide you with the help that you need.

Perhaps I was attempting to be too tactful in my first post, but that was the message I was intending to deliver, without making it sound like I was criticizing Thom or for that matter even making reference to his practices.

EDIT: Mark beat me to the post, but again, I was attempting to help answer your question.
Voice

Registered:
Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #12 
Apparently the answer to the question of: "So is there any chance of a pass at documentation please?"

Is: "No. Stop mentioning that the scripting documentation is actively wrong in some cases, because there's no way an update will ever happen."

Oddly enough, it appears that *some* people have information about the new calls (because there are posts in this very thread giving suggestions on what to try for some of the out of date ones), and ryleyra claims "Thom relies on the community to keep track of the changes to the game and capture all of the details that he may have missed. If you have any questions or need help with any aspect of the game, you should direct your questions to the forums. Someone will answer your questions and provide you with the help that you need.", but it is apparently considered 'complaining' for someone to do exactly that, and ask what they are, and if there is any plan to update the documentation.

If, as was indicated, the community is responsible for relaying that information, maybe the community should update the documentation.  That would still be "a pass at documentation", even if Thom himself never touched it again.

Only one person suggested that Thom would have to "drop everything", and it wasn't the person who asked about the missing/incorrect info.  In fact the first mention of Thom was ryleyra apparently taking it as a person affront that the original poster responded with, a rather polite.
Quote:
I used the example that you answered to highlight the necessity for a pass on the documentation.
So yes if you could answer my question It would be appreciated by more than just me I'm sure.


Things didn't get heated, or rude, until ryleyra decided (on Thom's behalf) to take a polite response as a personal attack on Thom.  And then MarkBell chimed in (in "admin mode") to tell the *polite* person to "Cool off."

I'm not an admin, but apparently the admin crew need to 'cool off' a bit, too.  The question by zoriyla was, as ryleyra indicated it should be, directed to the forums.  But that apparently wasn't good enough, because it still ended up with two people treating the person who asked the question as if they had just posted an insult toward the developer.
MarkBell

Avatar / Picture

Administrator
Registered:
Posts: 1,955
Reply with quote  #13 
Ok, it appears that some folks who are relatively new to the community don't have a feel yet for how the community operates and have some questions.  That's not a problem.  Some folks who are not new to the community are trying to help out.  That's not a problem.

What I'm seeing is people getting heated up and very personal in these discussions, which get away from the original topic.  That is a problem.

I'm pm'ing everyone in this thread privately.

Maybe I should make a forum guide for folks who are newer.  That may help avoid this part of the discussion in the future.

I'm locking this thread so everyone has a chance to cool off.  

__________________
Note - this is in no way intended to be an official position of Thom or Artemis, as I am not an official representative of the creator or game.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.