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MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat
An atmospheric spatial drive (Warp) would fit in pretty well in the mad science steampunk/diesel punk genre, Could also just change warp to turbo or afterburners or something. Nukes could also just be High Explosive warheads. Guess it depends on how much you want to change the game; Course you havent shied away from changin up the gameplay in the past, so no reason to start now 😃

Feel like giving the Krelian faction a vaguely Russian sounding name wouldn't go amiss.



That's true, and warp would make it less tedious to get around lol I think I'll make it bad efficiency, though, to simulate the experimental nature of it.

Again, part of this is to demo everything you can do to mod the game. Mixing up the ordnance is a fun way to do that. Plus, side missions still give them out occasionally...

Hmm, Kingdom of Cinderburg?

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #32 
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Originally Posted by MarkBell
The mod will be distributed at the modding panel at Armada, and available online shortly thereafter.  We've also arranged for a camera to be parked in the back of the room, and we'll put the whole workshop online after the panel!

I have to say, this is some seriously awesome work you have done here. Kudos to you, good sir!

Also, I hope that this panel might help me with some of the modding work I have lined up. Any and all advice will be welcome, as always.
MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #33 
I hope so too! That's the idea of the panel, anyways lol
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Longbowman1346

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Reply with quote  #34 
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Originally Posted by MarkBell

So here are some of my mod thoughts, brain droppings style:

The Gearguard Alliance (player) has a Cruiser, Scout, Carrier, and Dreadnought.  The NPCs will have the Cruiser and Scout.

The Polyton Hegemony (Skaraan) is a nation of mad science!  Hence the drastically different style of airship, and the unexplained abilities.

The Kingdom of Cooperdenn (Kralien) throws what it can cobble together at the Alliance!  Lives are cheap, and they make airships to match.

The ships of Aerohaven (Arvonian) are more like hangars with engines than real airships.

The Vexwall Empire (Torgoth) has ships that are sleek and powerful.  Their inexorable advance into Alliance territory has given all the nations pause.  I like that they don't have the same engines as the other types. 

The player ships will have a bit of a speed advantage, but I'm not sure about warp.  It's hard to justify in this one!  Easy enough to do write it out by just not including warp nodes in the SNT file, or I could just make the efficiency just really bad to be an experimental drive system.  

No nukes, mostly homings.  Maybe mines?  Sky mines!

Recommend no monsters, terrain, or lethal terrain.  I'm not really sure what a black hole would be in a steampunk game, but weird is the best we could hope for 😋

I may make the rightmost of the Arvonian group into the Transport of the Alliance.

The mod will be distributed at the modding panel at Armada, and available online shortly thereafter.  We've also arranged for a camera to be parked in the back of the room, and we'll put the whole workshop online after the panel!



Mark...  I love these ideas!  I like the idea of no warp...  maybe a turbo burst that can be modded to last only a short time with the help of engineering?      No nukes...  hm.  I kind of like that idea but maybe as someone else said, just rename it and reduce the damage it does but leave the mines be the big boys with all of the destructive power?
 

Yes, to no monster!  But I would say that some terrain, like clouds, storms or what not might be considered.  Black holes could simply be major storm systems?   Are you going to make the map "bigger" by chance to make travel a real part of the game and something you need to consider when chewing up energy?

And I think that I am now going to be part of the murder mystery actors so I don't think I am gonna be able to make the modding panel as we will be doing things throughout the event but I will try to stop in to at least lend ideas!

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MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbowman1346


Mark...  I love these ideas!  I like the idea of no warp...  maybe a turbo burst that can be modded to last only a short time with the help of engineering?      No nukes...  hm.  I kind of like that idea but maybe as someone else said, just rename it and reduce the damage it does but leave the mines be the big boys with all of the destructive power?
 

Yes, to no monster!  But I would say that some terrain, like clouds, storms or what not might be considered.  Black holes could simply be major storm systems?   Are you going to make the map "bigger" by chance to make travel a real part of the game and something you need to consider when chewing up energy?

And I think that I am now going to be part of the murder mystery actors so I don't think I am gonna be able to make the modding panel as we will be doing things throughout the event but I will try to stop in to at least lend ideas!


I love these ideas!  The problem is we're running into the limitation of the extent to which the game can be modded 😋 

The warp is sort of an all or nothing proposition - either the ship has warp nodes, or it doesn't.  Really making the efficiency bad might encourage players to stick to impulse, maybe with boosts from engineering power to speed it up, but keep it in reserve for emergencies. 

Unfortunately, with 2.7.0 and the additional torpedo types, the ability to change the damage of the ordnance has gone away.  I and many other modders would love for it to come back, but until then we've got to play it as we can.  That's why I'm thinking of sticking to Homings and Mines - that way it's got a satisfying amount of missiles to fire, and a way to leave some big damage, but it stays WWI rather than WWIII.  I can actually change the mine and textures, which I might do.

I could see about changing the asteroid into something interesting like..... uh, floating rock chunks? 😋

There's a few different asteroid textures and meshes now, but I don't think I can change a nebula per se.  We could call it clouds of unaligned aetheric energy or something. 

I can change the monsters into something else, visually at least, but I can't do anything about what they're called or their in game behavior outside of a mission script. 

I can't change how a Black Hole is constructed (5 or 6 layers of color shifted flat images),  but we could maybe play with the image some. 

I was thinking of making the ships smaller to let the map feel bigger, but then the fact the the backround images themselves aren't changing makes it feel kinda weird - I might leave it as bigger, really crank up the push radius and see how it goes. 

Increasing the energy usage of various systems could really make it a more interesting energy management experience, and lowering the overall speed will still give it a "floating airship" feel.

I hope you can pop in!  If not, though, it'll all be put up online after the con so folks can listen to me prattle on for hours 😋

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #36 

Please forgive me for not quoting qhat I'm referring to. There have been multiple alternatives to most ideas, so quoting one would not do it justice.

Let me start by saying that in Artemis Vanilla, energy efficiency can be very well described by starships running on car batteries with a hamster in a bogie wheel to generate energy. It's highly inefficient and in my opinion this always felt like Artemis was a short-range space travel experience at best.

In the spirit of previous ideas, and the overall feel of airships and a steampunk-ish mod, I think setting ship efficiency to an above average setting (similar to the TNG mod, where energy isn't nearly as much a problem as in Artemis Vanilla) and setting warp efficiency to a relatively low efficiency would give the feeling of a booster setting that's basically rockets strapped to the side of the airship. Yes, you will go faster...but it's really more of an emergency system to get the hell out of a tight spot than a regular form of travel.
Additionally, I think I would increase overall top speed slightly, because going really slow and not having a reliable setting to go faster will likely result in bored and possibly annoyed players.

Captain: "Helmsman, how much longer until we're there?"
Helm: "3, maybe 4."
Captain: "Minutes or hours?"
Helm: "Weeks, sir. I was referring to weeks."

You could increase the energy usage of shields, sublight and maneuvering thrusters to an above average value, while the beams and torpedo tubes get a below average value...because machine guns and gas-propelled torpedoes really don't work the same way that beam weapons do, so why would that eat up similar amounts of energy?

Longbowman1346

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Reply with quote  #37 
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Originally Posted by ron77

because machine guns and gas-propelled torpedoes really don't work the same way that beam weapons do, so why would that eat up similar amounts of energy?


This reminds me of a convo I had with someone else about turning things steam punk.  Rapid fire of the beams to simulate machine guns with tracers......  or... as I think Mark is heading...  Keep it battleship like and the homing torpedoes are in abundance that take very little energy to shoot and do sizeable damage like the battleships and dreadnaught of WWI and prior, but the "Beams" are highly enhanced heat beams that do considerably massive damage but sucks the energy like an arterial bleed and to be used in extreme cases.

That would be a real turn around to what we have now....  but a mute point as damage adjustments are not a possibility.


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ron77

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbowman1346

This reminds me of a convo I had with someone else about turning things steam punk.  Rapid fire of the beams to simulate machine guns with tracers......  or... as I think Mark is heading...  Keep it battleship like and the homing torpedoes are in abundance that take very little energy to shoot and do sizeable damage like the battleships and dreadnaught of WWI and prior, but the "Beams" are highly enhanced heat beams that do considerably massive damage but sucks the energy like an arterial bleed and to be used in extreme cases.

That would be a real turn around to what we have now....  but a mute point as damage adjustments are not a possibility.

Actually, you could reduce the damage of beam weapons in the vesselData.xml and reduce the beamDelay in artemis.ini. The combination would allow you to simulate rapid fire machine guns quite nicely.
Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBell
The player ships will have a bit of a speed advantage, but I'm not sure about warp.  It's hard to justify in this one!  Easy enough to do write it out by just not including warp nodes in the SNT file, or I could just make the efficiency just really bad to be an experimental drive system. 


The warp drive in Artemis is really not that fast. Just give the player ship rocket boosters and scale the speed accordingly.

Jump drive is the one that would be hard to explain.

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MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #40 
You wouldn't even need to do that, just reduce the delay of the beam itself in vesselData.xml.  You can adjust the coverage angle there as well - 360° turrets are totally doable.  I was leaning a bit more towards machine guns with a lot of torpedoes, just because it's a lot more visually interesting, but the consoles shake and fuzz when you get hit so enemies might stick to heavier beams and drones.  On the other hand, a massive beam shot is a lot of fun - but it isn't great for taking out enemy drones!  I don't think you can torpedo drones at the moment, so I think we'll have to stick to machine gun-like beams.

The trick with high frequency beams is that they take energy every time they shoot.  You can reduce the energy usage of beams in artemis.ini, but it should have some energy cost.  We'll call it the strain on the promethium engine for the auto-reload system.

I think keeping the warp in as an experimental, emergency activation system is about where I am, with very poor efficiency.  Having reasonable impulse speeds, with decent efficiency, will allow the ships to get where they're going without too much of a fuss, just not at ludicrous speed.

Torpedoes right now don't exactly put a big strain on the energy system, and I see them as the primary armament.  Most ships will have at least 4 tubes, and the energy cost to convert to and from will be pretty low.

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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #41 
The BioMechs would be hard to explain, too.

Most of the monsters would not work very well, but I could imagine a Dragon and a Sky Shark.

What about the various powerups?

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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #42 
Im liking where you are going with the energy use and the boost. You could even cut the difference and make impulse a little faster.

The power ups at least look like they could cobcirvably  be objects made to float in the air. Maybe the ships use cargo pods with nutral buoyancy to facilitate easy trasnfer from ship to ship?



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MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #43 
Well, as with most mods, some player participation in setup is essential to making the immersion stick 😋  I usually recommend turning monsters off for a less fantastical experience, but I don't see why you couldn't leave them in. 

BioMechs could just be changed to a Sky Mining corporation, purely neutral but not really caring who they need to shoot down to clear them out of the way.  I'll need some ships, maybe in a different pallet, for them.  Maybe use the greenish dirigible for the mining ships (first two stages), then it summons (turns into) a ship from the Vexwall Empire when it gets aggressive and sentient, then when it's done it summons (turns into) more mining platforms.

The powerups are what they are - I can't actually modify those in any way.

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ron77

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBell
You wouldn't even need to do that, just reduce the delay of the beam itself in vesselData.xml.  You can adjust the coverage angle there as well - 360° turrets are totally doable.  I was leaning a bit more towards machine guns with a lot of torpedoes, just because it's a lot more visually interesting, but the consoles shake and fuzz when you get hit so enemies might stick to heavier beams and drones.  On the other hand, a massive beam shot is a lot of fun - but it isn't great for taking out enemy drones!  I don't think you can torpedo drones at the moment, so I think we'll have to stick to machine gun-like beams.

You're talking about the recycle, yes. For the TNG mod, I actually reduced the beamDelay in artemis.ini and added a bunch of forward phasers for the Defiant class to simulate rapid fire phase cannons. Machine guns would follow a very similar pattern, if you want to go with burst fire. Reduce beamDelay from 0.3 seconds to 0.1 seconds, add a bunch of beam_ports in the vesselData.xml on top of each other and then adjust the cycle to compensate. So, assuming engineering is set to 100% and an airship is equipped with a machine gun made up of, say, 10 identical beam_ports, you will fire for almost a full second before the guns need to reload. A recycle of 6.0 seconds is way too long, but if you set cycletime to something like 2.0 and up the beam_ports to something like 15 or 16, with a beamDelay of 0.1 secs you will fire a 1.5 second burst before a brief pause of 0.5 secs. Adjusting the beam damage to something like 1 (instead of 12) would help with balancing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBell
The trick with high frequency beams is that they take energy every time they shoot.  You can reduce the energy usage of beams in artemis.ini, but it should have some energy cost.  We'll call it the strain on the promethium engine for the auto-reload system.

I completely agree, they should cost something. Just not as much as they would if you simply increased firing frequency from the original Artemis Vanilla values. [wink]
Also, think high-calibre cannons on an airship. Think the Lockheed AC-130 gunship; except now you're shooting stuff in the skies. [biggrin]
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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBell

The powerups are what they are - I can't actually modify those in any way.


I'm pretty sure the anomaly meshes and textures are in the dat folder. For that matter, so are the monsters, so while you can't change their behavior, you could change the Dragon to a REAL dragon! 😃

Of course all you have to do is leave monsters off and you don't have to modify anything.

Also: There really isn't any rule that says beams can't have the same x,y,z coordinates, is there? I hadn't really thought of that for "multishot" beams.

In Strike Force Seven I gave the flying saucer Xlmbt a rapid-fire beam. I didn't really think about how fast it uses energy, but very little survives that beam for long. 😃 That was intentional. I might use your idea to fire 10 shots and then "reload" though.

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