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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #31 
My conclusions of jumping with them is that while Jump is very energy intensive for all ships, which is a negative, heavier ships which pull the short efficiency straw are relatively speaking penalized the least.

But in practical terms it comes down to this.

Unlike warp, Jump energy is Consumed upfront and not over the duration.
Homings are essentially a backup energy reserve, meaning if your ship carries more homings it actually carries more energy.
So if the Scout is 60% more energy efficient but the Dreadnought carries 60% more energy reserves in homings the two essentially cancel each other out, making the Dreadnought about as effective as the Scout.

Although it's operational time, due to energy drain is less, it makes up for that with three tubes and heavy beams.
The missile cruiser carries huge energy supplies and is efficient but does lack beams of any kind, which can be a real bummer. You never really miss something until it's gone I can tell you. [biggrin]
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #32 
Well, it goes without saying that the lower efficiency of a bigger ship is compensated for by their larger weapons and shields. It wouldn't really be fair for the Battleship to have so much more firepower than the Light Cruiser and still have the same performance. Which is how we got efficiency in the first place.

However, since Warp takes into account top speed, while Jump doesn't, Jump does not compare well to Warp for ships that have high top speed, while it fares better than Warp for ships that have low top speed. In addition, the Scout is penalized for having a low Homing Torpedo count. (The Missile Cruiser is also smaller and faster than a Dreadnought, but unlike the Scout has VERY large Homing Torpedo stores)
jigzat

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Reply with quote  #33 
Have you guys think about changing the name of the different impulse types-drives so it doesn't interfere with scientific reality and sic-fi pre conceptions? I read a long post about it that never reached a conclusion... just my two cents
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #34 
Do you mean changing the name of the enemy elite power Warp Drive?
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #35 
I don't understand what you mean either. There is only one kind of impulse drive, Impulse, which is presumably a sub-light form of travel. The name is taken from Star Trek, where it pretty much acts as it does here. It is a form of travel slower than Warp, which still propels the ship through thrust directed from an engine in the back of the saucer, and the ship banks or rolls as it performs turning maneuvers.

What "long post" do you mean? Maybe you should have posted there so we can continue the discussion without going off the topic of Jump Drive.

Alternately, we could start a new thread on the mechanics of sub-light and FTL drives if you like. Arrew has some technical details he has come up with which seem to have internal consistency. I doubt if we could ever come up with one answer, though. Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, and other sci-fi shows all have different theories about how their drive systems work, and they are not always internally consistent either.
jigzat

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Reply with quote  #36 
I'm side-noting but I read a some-how-long thread about warp and jumps and acceleration, and how Artemis is not accurate about it. The thread didn't reach a conclusion but the general idea was that there are technical limitations beside the fact that the technology does not exist yet.

So I was wondering why not just change the name of each technology so the game can have its own pseudo-scientific background.

I mean, for instance, change WARP to WORP (of course I'm joking about it)

Now for clarification, in the thread someone pointed out the fact that the sub-light impulse should not have a visible trust because the speed is constant and bodies in space just need a push to keep moving indefinitely if they don't find an obstacle.
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #37 
Yeah, the "exhaust" trail behind the Artemis is not scientifically accurate. Star Trek had the Impulse engines light up red when the ship was in motion, but there was no visible trail.

Now, when you're talking about Warp movement, there is no reason to assume that a body at FTL speeds remains in motion until a reverse thrust decelerates it. In fact, Star Trek specifically contradicts that; when power is cut to Warp drive, the ship drops out of Warp and "crashes" to a halt, with crew members thrown about in their seats. It is reasonable to assume that space resists warping, thus you must maintain constant power to keep moving, with increasing power cost for greater speeds.

The idea here is that on Earth (either in water or in the atmosphere) there is resistance from the medium being travelled through. Warp drive is a medium based form of travel as well, where the medium is the fabric of space itself. Thus, constant thrust is required for constant speed, and maneuvers are performed by changing the shape of the warp bubble, perhaps by "banking" to rotate the drives into a better position.

Of course, Jump drive does not require such maneuvers, and we have no way of knowing how a Warp drive will operate in reality. The Alcubierre drive, which is the closest we have come to theorizing a Warp drive in real life, would probably require constant power to maintain, (ENOURMOUS amounts of power) but probably wouldn't require the ship to "bank". The ships in Star Trek bank because we as human beings have come to expect that, though, and this could be regarded as poetic license. (Like sounds in space, or magnified viewport views)

I will note that I have previously explained the non-Newtonian behavior of Impulse drive as the use of a low-level Warp field during sub-light maneuvers, to keep the use of non-renewable propulsion materials to a minimum, and to eliminate relativistic effects. (If you go more than about 10% of the speed of light, you'll notice time goes faster for you than for the rest of the universe) In addition, the Helm controls could be simplified to set speed and direction, not thrust, and flight computers automatically handle the application of thrust to get you to the desired speed and bearing.

Note that "50% Impulse" in Star Trek is assumed to be 50% of top Impulse speed, not 50% of the maximum thrust of the ship. Full Impulse would be determined by energy efficiency and relativistic effects, not the size of the engines. (Which would only effect acceleration and deceleration)

Continuing in this vein, we could say that the "exhaust trail" behind the Artemis is not actually chemical rockets consuming fuel, but a glow from the Impulse engines "stretched out" by persistence of vision and the warp bubble. At Warp, the glow actually breaks apart, producing the distinctive "dotted" appearance of Warp drive. Again, call it poetic license. [biggrin]
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #38 
Oh, and I didn't answer the question that was asked. [biggrin]

I don't think the name needs to be changed from "Warp Drive" and "Impulse Drive". While "Warp Drive" can be said to be the intellectual property of Star Trek ("Worp" was used in one parody movie, I can't remember which) but it has become such common use these days that I doubt its use in Artemis would be considered trademark infringement. "Impulse" drive has a real-world meaning, and I don't think could be considered a trademark of Star Trek. (It would be like the old Buck Rogers serials trying to claim they own the word "Rocket")

Jump Drive I think is common usage, but that name is rarely used by itself. Usually, a sci-fi franchise will come up with their own name for the drive, like the "Kearny-Fushida Drive" in Battletech. Sometimes it is called "Hyperdrive", "Hyperspace" or just "FTL Drive". Hyperspace is a complicating concept that can actually be between Warp Drive and Jump Drive in implementation.

I think I will move this discussion to another thread.
jigzat

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Kearny-Fushida Drive


something like this sounds really cool.
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