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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcommerin
And would like (sort of) to hear from things that went wrong, cause it may prevent me from making the same mistake... [wink]


Per a request (from a long time ago) I want to post a couple of pictures of some of the things that haven't withstood the test of time between Armada I and now.

The biggest one is the front console. The stations on the left and right just weren't strong enough to support the stresses being put on them. I knew that was probably the case going in, but it lasted for the weekend and for most of this year they have still been good enough to play on.
The issues:

The side consoles did not have bottoms Here you can see through the bottom of the Helm station to the center console
IMG_20160130_140426_547.jpg 

This put a lot of stress on the wood making up the front and rear of the console stressed areas where the pieces are separating.
Here are some example.
1. you can see the two pieces pulling away from each other on the science console.
2. The front of the conole is twisting and bringing the two pieces of wood out of alignment, though you can barely see it in this picture.
3. Another area wher the wood is being pulled out of alignment.

IMG_20160130_143243_256.jpg 
There is also a problem with the wood I used as a joining material having come apart along the front panel of the engineering console. I believe this is from moving it around.

IMG_20160130_140318_318.jpg 

there are also various areas that have been dinged up from moving/ playing the game.

Fixes

The Engineering console will be an easy fix. Im going to put stonger wood as a joining material along to bottom to take the stress or build a base for it. That should keep it from splitting in the future.

The front consoles will take some more work. I have started building these little things on the side of the center console
IMG_20160130_205536_148.jpg  IMG_20160130_205943_6871.jpg
They should add a lot more stability and so far they seem pretty effective.
I will also be completely rebuilding the side consoles, starting with a bottom made from two sheets of 1/2 mdf. In the past I have found this to be very strong. This will bring the stress off of the front and back and put it on the base. combined with the additional support, it should be very stable and have very little flex.

IMG_20160131_153334_356.jpg 
  There will be some other updates I will be doing as well, but this is my current project.


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janx

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Reply with quote  #62 
Some other things to think about is to make sure you do not make the MDF be load bearing.  I can see from one pic, you have some wood struts in play, but the point is that you should build a frame with wood, then attach the MDF to that.

That way there's less pressure from things pulling on it.

I'd also recommend Trim to cover the seams.  Since gappage can happen, applying decorative trim over seams would mask that, and any incidental separation would be underneath the trim.

Imagine fastening the trim on one edge (to one side of the gap), so there's room to flex from the other piece.

I don't know how that'd work with your existing stations, but as an engineering idea for future builds...

Your stuff does look good, but using thick MDF like it's lumber is likely part of your problem.  Using lumber UNDER the MDF would likely give you the best of both worlds.
Gryphon

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Reply with quote  #63 
1/2" MDO with framing lumber is the best of both worlds - stronger, lighter, much more humidity-resistant, finishes just as well, and the sawdust is just sawdust instead of stinking powdered toxic waste. Only drawback is the higher per-sheet cost, but when the much longer likely build life is factored in, MDO is the better deal. Just my two cents....
notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #64 
Janx; my initial designs had a full frame, but it quickly became evident that it was not needed. I also looked at using trim, but this was ultimately far more of a hassle than it was worth and that was abandoned as well. Gaps are not that common in the build other than the stress points shown. Using MDF has not been my problem (the relatively small pieces that I use means that it is surprisingly strong), making sure that the joining areas in certain high stress areas (like around the base of the engineering console) is. The two side consoles were not very well supported, I knew this from day 1, but hoped it would work out anyway. Wood under the side consoles may be used, but will probably not be necessary judging from testing on the new support design. I feel that correcting problems that develop like this are part of the fine tuning stage, so I expected to have to revisit some things. Keep in mind that my bridge was built, brought to and from Armada 1 and then has been played on nearly every week for the last year. Its earned its wear and tear.

Gryphon: You have mentioned MDO before in this thread. MDO is one of the MANY construction materials I looked at before starting on my build. I even revisited it when you previously brought it up and the reasons I didn't end up using it are listed in earlier posts. I see that you are using it in your own build and I look forward to seeing how it comes out, it just wouldn't work very well for my purposes.

Also keep in mind guys, I have a very clear idea of what I want to do as well as how I want to do it. It is a long build because it is labor intensive and money intensive, so the updates will be slow coming. However, this is intended as a build documentation, I'm not really looking for build advice here. If you have questions, please ask. However if you have suggestions, please wait until I ask for advice or at least send them to me through PM so as to not clutter up the thread.

Thank you.

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Newcommerin

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Reply with quote  #65 
Your bridge is awesome - just with the scratchs and twists. Thanks for putting up the pics of the consoles after a year of action. I didn't believed your front console would do it this long time! So I know I can "risk" a bit more than I thought. [smile]
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Gryphon

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Reply with quote  #66 
Wasn't criticizing your decision, notsabbat, just responding to janx's comment regarding using framing lumber with the thicker MDF. I actually think we are in agreement about MDF not usually needing internal solid-wood framing in these sorts of smaller portable pieces. I apologize for sounding like a know-it-all and not being more clear.

I think your station consoles are just beautiful in both design and execution and can barely wait to finally see them in person! 
notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcommerin
Your bridge is awesome - just with the scratchs and twists. Thanks for putting up the pics of the consoles after a year of action. I didn't believed your front console would do it this long time! So I know I can "risk" a bit more than I thought. [smile]


Well we can still play on it though the side consoles are sagging pretty bad. I'm embarrassed to say that we are supporting the sides with some spare Lumber right now. The fixes seem like they will work well and I will make sure to post detailed descriptions of what I did and how I did it.

Here it is brand new (not even played on yet).
  2284327.jpg 

here it is now after about 90 missions under its belt (We have also been playing around with some new configurations.)

IMG_20160130_140405_081.jpg 
Poor thing [frown]
Ill do my best to get her prettied up for Armada 2   [smile]


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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon
Wasn't criticizing your decision, notsabbat, just responding to janx's comment regarding using framing lumber with the thicker MDF. I actually think we are in agreement about MDF not usually needing internal solid-wood framing in these sorts of smaller portable pieces. I apologize for sounding like a know-it-all and not being more clear.

I think your station consoles are just beautiful in both design and execution and can barely wait to finally see them in person! 


well, thanks. Just seems like everytime I post something someone says something about what they think I should have used. Probably got to me more than it should have.

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Gryphon

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Reply with quote  #69 
We all have our build preferences. To me at least, this seems like one of the least prickly and most supportive boards I've ever posted on regularly. Artemis attracts folks with a cooperative/collaborative bent, maybe. Again, sorry if my commentary comes off as under-appreciative sometimes - definitely not meant that way at all. You are a talented designer.
notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon
We all have our build preferences. To me at least, this seems like one of the least prickly and most supportive boards I've ever posted on regularly. Artemis attracts folks with a cooperative/collaborative bent, maybe. Again, sorry if my commentary comes off as under-appreciative sometimes - definitely not meant that way at all. You are a talented designer.



I agree. This game does attract people that are good with cooperation.

No worries, water under the bridge.

Thank you for saying so.

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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #71 

Just a quick update on the progress of the front console revamp.

There isn't too much to see aesthetically, but I'm so happy to have gotten it to this point I just wanted to post something about it. [smile]


(Please pardon the mess)

The supports are finished and while there is obviously more work to be done on the side consoles, they are at least playable and a whole lot more stable than they were previously.

I'm also designing these stations to be modular, so stations positions can be switched up and can also be made left handed; The station on the right is currently set up with a left handed Science officer in mind (our regular science officer is left handed). Once I make sure the layout works, Ill finalize the layout and positioning of the controls.

12782030_1100818023283263_1968758158_n.jpg   




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Gryphon

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Reply with quote  #72 
I love the clean lines of this console. Sharp!

notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #73 

Thought I would share a couple of the things I have been working on for Armada @ as well;

An in-progress picture of the center console with access panel (it has since been painted)

IMG_20160329_182200_467.jpg 
The front console "Computer Core"

IMG_20160329_182224_591.jpg 
and a video showing the helm controls I have been working on using slide potentiomers and an Arduino Leonardo board (I was watching ST:Voyeger at the time)


working on getting the controls integrated currently. hopefully it will be super pretty by friday [biggrin]




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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #74 
This looks gorgeous. I can't wait to see it Friday!
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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat

IMG_20160329_182224_591.jpg



-Bring it about!
-Helm controls inoperative!
-Switch to manual!
*ducks* *pulls cover* *switch* *switch* *plug*
-Manual override engaged!

[biggrin]

classic Trek lol

(funny that you have "Q2" in the background, the scene where they steal the Delta Flyer,.... a 24th century shuttle, with manual 20th century controls... )
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