Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 3 of 3      Prev   1   2   3
Xavier Wise

Registered:
Posts: 1,141
Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
I do like the TSN Groups Scout mission/stance idea, but I am worried how some crews would feel about mostly being a scan bot


Missions change frequently in a game. A scouts first role is usually to get those scans in, but after will switch to a different role (sometimes even before scans are complete, depending on the situation). In our multi-ship games, scouts are kept very active and provide an essential role in supporting the main battle groups.

__________________
Fleet Captain Xavier Wise - TSN Sabre
Link to TSN RP Community website
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #32 
I suspect it's not as much Scouts being a scan bot as much as it's more efficient for one ship to be designated to do the job, and it might as well be the ship already designated as reconnaissance and intercept. Before I realized that one ship can do the scanning for a whole fleet, I would not have realized that.

Then again, given that the Scout could be moving into position for an advance attack on the enemy position, or responding to a Skaraan raider threateningly close to a base, maybe it would be better for one of the rear ships in the fleet to be designated Command and Control. It comes down to play style, really.

My suggestion was going to be that if you change the scan rules so that a ship can only scan unknowns that are within its own scan range, and can only deep scan ships within the next lowest scan range on the server setup screen (16k if the range is 33k, for instance) then a ship is responsible for scanning the unknowns closest to it. The fleet would want to send out Scouts to scan distant targets that only the bases are currently picking up.

However, this would make a single ship scanning all of the threats impossible, and eliminate the strategic benefit of having a ship designated for that. Although, if scan info wears off after a time, that would also make it more effective to have multiple ships handling that task at the same time.

I need to do a test to see how two ships scanning a target at the same time effects things, and whether there is an indication of that happening. I'm sure the people who play fleets all the time know a lot more than I do.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #33 

While thinking about the topic, the following conversation came to mind:

"Spock, what can you tell me about that ship"
"Checking now, Captain"
<scan>
"It is a Grebnik Trokinator, Captain, a powerful warship."
<more scans>
"Fascinating" <raises eyebrow>
<more scans>
"There is a harmonic flaw in the ship's shields, Captain, which we might be able to penetrate with a barrage of Oscillating Framizams." [biggrin]

Arrew

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,737
Reply with quote  #34 
Well I suppose it's good scouts have a role. Beyond the energy efficiency infinite warp trick I couldn't really get them to do much for me.

And if anyone is going to scout... it should be the... well scout. [wink]


I can't recall what were their stances/missions again... Scout/scan, Strike and distract or something?

I wander how the addition of player controlled fighters will alter the game and the scouts place in it? Like Ryleyra said about fast attack craft in WW2, if the fighters are faster and have a long enough range will they fill more of the fast attack neach?

I for one can't wait to find out [biggrin] .
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #35 
Fighters will likely have a much smaller range than Scouts. The Arvonian fighters in the game can barely go 5k before they have to turn around and return to the carrier. While fighters on the players' side will probably have a longer range than that, Scouts have a range of ten sectors. [biggrin]

I've probably mentioned this before, but here's an idea for Scouts on the War Server. Instead of limiting them to sectors that have a friendly controlled sector bordering on them, give them the ability to cross two sectors. There aren't likely to be any single enemies that deep in enemy held territories, but the Scout could make a strike on one or two ships in a fleet with an eye toward keeping them from multiplying in the next turn.

I would say a Light Cruiser should be able to move two sectors, too, but the Scout would have the speed to run a blockade, while a Light Cruiser wouldn't necessarily. If the War Server is ever changed to allow friendly sectors to be entered (say, you can fall back to a friendly base for fuel and torpedoes) the Light Cruiser could move two sectors.

Of course, if ships could move from sector to sector in real time, the Scout could actually rush through a sector to get to the one on the other side. (Or stealthily sneak through)
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #36 
Does anyone think we need to discuss and clarify the roles of the various ship classes?

Here's my take on it, based on the naval vessels they appear to be the analogue of:

Scout - Light patrol duty, reconnaissance, fleet escort, seek and destroy for Skaraans and other fast moving or stealthed threats.

Light Cruiser - Patrol duty, transport, escort of civilian ships, can carry out missions without robbing the fleet of most of its firepower.

Missile Cruiser - As above, with improved long range firepower allowing quicker engagement of the enemy.

Battleship - Front line battle, with an emphasis on head to head fighting. Their naval analogue seems to be the "fast battleships", in that they are as fast and maneuverable as a cruiser, with a greater cost and fuel use.

Dreadnought - Front line battle, emphasis on taking on fleets. (With 360 degree field of fire and the longer ranged main gun, as well as added nukes)

Interestingly, one of the naval missile cruiser's stated capabilities is air defense, while in Artemis, the Missile Cruiser's lack of beams makes it vulnerable to fighters and drones. The air defense role seems to be filled by Scouts and Light Cruisers.

Once carriers are added to the game, they are regarded as capital ships with the most important role in a fleet, but are actually fairly vulnerable. Fighters are used for everything from reconnaissance to first strike.
Arrew

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,737
Reply with quote  #37 
I like your idea about scouts in the war server. Would make a lot of sense.

Also ship roles... Slightly different with jump where Missile Cruisers and Dreadnoughts seem to be the only two real viable options.

MC = Ranged engagement/ Quick hit and run
D = Close range/Sustained? (Although their energy reserves are less I mean they can go toe to toe where MC's cant.)

What'd ya think?
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
Also ship roles... Slightly different with jump where Missile Cruisers and Dreadnoughts seem to be the only two real viable options.


I see drive technology being an option, rather than a separate class. Scouts and Battleships are not well suited for Jump Drive, as it renders their strengths irrelevant. Scouts wouldn't get the 1.33 efficiency due to moving faster at Warp relative to the same energy drain, and Battleships need warp to maneuver close to the enemy and stay there.

However, Missile Cruisers are well suited for Jump Drive as you stated, and I would guess Carriers would make a good match as well. Any ship with long range strike capability would do well with an option to take Jump Drive.

I could see a mix of Jump Drive Missile Cruisers and Dreadnoughts in a fleet with Warp Driven Battleships and Light Cruisers, except for one strategic flaw. Fleets are built for station keeping, which means that they are all designed to have the same cruising speed. A fleet made up of ships with Jump and Warp drive would either be limited to sublight, as all the ships kept station with the Jump Driven ships, or the Warp driven ships would have to Warp out to a check point where the rest of the fleet would Jump to them.

The latter would probably require Jump driven escorts to make sure the Missile Cruisers aren't left helpless while the Warp driven ships move into position. I envision a situation where Jump and Warp drives can be switched out in a given starship's frame depending on the mission.

Of course, in game I've very rarely seen the strategy used where the ships form together into a single fleet. Instead, the members of the fleet are usually directed to individual targets simultaneously. So mixed drive isn't really a problem.

We probably need to do some tests to see if the Scout and Dreadnought's topspeed rating has any effect on Jump at all. If not, then the Dreadnought definitely benefits from Jump, while the Scout definitely is crippled by it.

Arrew

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,737
Reply with quote  #39 
I agree with your assessment of the vessels Ryleyra. Bang on the nose as far as I can see.

As to mixed Drive fleets. Practically it makes sense if each ship were employed to it's strength.

Perhaps what those strengths are and how best to do that is the next thing to do? Fleet commanders?


But RP wise not so much. The canon gets around this with the whole Terran/Ximni Alliance. Ships of very different technology could work together as a part of this Alliance and it would make sense.
ryleyra

Registered:
Posts: 3,007
Reply with quote  #40 
Making a note here that I tested the effect of top speed on Jump Drive (there was none, but efficiency is still a factor) in the Jump Drive Efficiency thread.

Also, when there are multiple ships with Science stations, they each have their own individual selection cursor which the other cannot see, but when they begin scanning, ALL ships see the target being scanned. If any other ship tries to scan the same target, it has no effect. Each ship can scan one target at the same time other ships are scanning one target. One ship can do the first scan, and another the second.

If there are multiple Science consoles on the SAME ship, they each show the same Science screen. Selecting a target moves the common selection cursor, and scanning will cancel any previous scan, if it is still running. As noted, the Captain's Map has a different selection cursor.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.