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Lightwave_Gecko

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Reply with quote  #1 
So, we're all new to fighters.  We've seen for years how the Arvonians use them, but the TSN only recently has the option.  How are you using them in your crew?  What do they do well, what do they do poorly?

We've only played one extensive session here so far, and only as a dreadnaught, but the current doctrine seems to be:

Cleanup:  Helping reduce leftovers after either nuking or mining a large group.  Launch after big booms are done, get behind things and annoy / distract / concentrate fire on large ships still standing.  Immediate pickup after group is gone, or left behind and retrieved later if Artemis is needed urgently for some other pressing attack. 

Kill Straggler / Singleton:  Similar to above, but launched at a distance to pick off something usually by itself, and usually without rear guns.  Examples would be survivors of minefields or black holes on groups, ships that have surrendered but are later found to be duplicitous, or easy to kill monsters.  This can be useful near the end of the game as well.

Defend Important Thing:  Leave them at a base to help defend, useful in hard times.

Desperation:  Ship is all banged up, but at least the fighter bays still work!  Launch, fire homing missiles, shoot things until almost dead, re-dock before destruction.  Repeat as soon as able.  This can be really helpful if you only have one pilot, as he can hop out of the expended fighter into the spare, then repeat almost immediately!  This saved out hide when we got caught by a friendly turned into a bomb that blew off our front end, and we had to limp to base while under heavy fire.  It worked out well, we saved the ship, and won the day, all thanks to the quick action of our fighters!

That's how we ran them as a dreaddy.  Seeing how they play, I have no clue how I'd run them as a carrier, as we'd have to find a few more crew members and joysticks.  (I do NOT recommend trying to fly with keyboard!)

What are your thoughts?  How have you been using fighters?

-JP
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #2 
Carrier attacks/ taunts from a distance outside of weapons range.
Fighters go in missiles blazing.

Enemy destroyed with ZERO friendly damage and little to no ordnance consumed.
Hyperion Engineer

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Reply with quote  #3 
We have used them mostly as glorified missile pods.  The Carrier will engage with an EMP and then move evasively.  The fighters deploy and dump their missiles without getting in beam range of the enemy.  Deploy/Fire/Return/Refill/Redeploy.  

I second the joystick sentiment.  We've played mostly on the keyboard so far and it is no fun.  Our joysticks just came in the mail this week so we'll try them out this weekend.  

So far I think it is a fun addition and that it will be a great tool as part of a fleet.  We'll have to get better at it before we are doing much more that muddling around with them.

We have run into the operational problem that everyone thinks the fighters are more fun that what they are supposed to be doing.  The captain will order fighters to deploy and a few seconds later he (in a fighter) will ask if anyone is left on the ship.  The answer is almost always no.  So our ship drifts aimlessly around for a few minutes while someone gets back on board.  

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TSN-Hyperion in dry dock at Hephaestus shipyards.
https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/tsnhyperion-bridge-build-8068440?pid=1291924499
clavestone

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Reply with quote  #4 

Carrier Tactics 101
Use your fighters wisely. when engaging a larger fleet fire EMP into fleet and launch fighters from more then 4K away. Let fighter engage and use homing missiles/P-shock to support.

Carrier Fighters 101
You only have 1 fighter, keep it alive, do not press the attack unless you can win. When shields drop to below 50% and you have no missiles left, RETURN TO HOME! Refit and relaunch as needed.

Dreadnought Fighters 101
Dreads, if you want to fist fight a fleet (Beams at close range, launch your fighters before closing (3-4K) and let them join in. DO NOT LAUNCH FIGHTERS when mixing it up inside the fleet. They will be targeted and destroyed faster then you can say oops!

General Fighter tactics 101
Pick a target and swarm it, up to 15 fighter missiles and guns will take down most light to medium ships in a few seconds. Don't forget to re-dock/refit if needed.

Pirate Fighter Tactics 101
Remember, most enemy ships DON'T SHOOT FROM THE REAR!, Place yourself tight up to their top/bottom backside and sit on them just plastering them with your guns. If they turn to face you, fly away and reset your position.


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Commander of the 1st CAP Light Recon Fleet stationed at ShoShuShen station, Eastern Front Sector
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ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion Engineer

We have run into the operational problem that everyone thinks the fighters are more fun that what they are supposed to be doing.  The captain will order fighters to deploy and a few seconds later he (in a fighter) will ask if anyone is left on the ship.  The answer is almost always no.  So our ship drifts aimlessly around for a few minutes while someone gets back on board.  


*snicker*

I personally think no more than two fighters is probably optimum for normal games. Naturally if you have a multi-bridge game going, one or two teams can form a fighter squadron. But for a single ship, I don't see the Carrier's five fighters as requiring ten different players, rather, those three extra fighters provide replacements for when the fighter pilots inevitably lose a fighter.

On the Dreadnought those fighters are more of an option, since once they are gone, the pilots will have to return to whatever their role was on the ship.

Now, if fighters are so robust they are never lost then that's more of an issue, but that seems like something Thom is probably still tweaking.

Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clavestone
DO NOT LAUNCH FIGHTERS when mixing it up inside the fleet. They will be targeted and destroyed faster then you can say oops!


This is super important!

The moment a fighter launches its pilot will be disoriented and need to take a moment to get the fighter pointed toward the enemy. If you launch after your capital ship is already within enemy weapons range, then by the time you turn to face the enemy you will be dead.

My observation is that this is usually the Captain's fault. The fighter pilot is sitting there happily playing blackjack as the carrier warps toward an enemy fleet. Then when the capital ship gets into range and the beams and torpedoes start flying the Captain says "Fighters away!" At that point it is too late and the fighter is blasted to smithereens as it emerges.

The Captain really needs to tell the fighters to launch before the capital ship gets close to weapons range.

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ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #7 
I'll add it to the wiki. That definitely sounds like a gameplay tip that is important to spread around.

EDIT: I did some testing, and taunts last two minutes. It should be noted, however, that once a ship fires on a fighter, taunting it will NOT draw it off the fighter. I did not test if this is true of any ship, but I feel fairly confident it is. You probably have to taunt an enemy AND get the ship it is targeting out of range before it will turn back.

I also did not test if a taunt can be renewed before it runs out, or if you'll have to catch an enemy ship after the taunt runs out but before it begins firing at a fighter. Even if this is possible, the timing is pretty close, so I would say that taunting is effective, but not 100% guaranteed.

Arrew

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Reply with quote  #8 
Not sure if this is relavant to the conversation... but here it is.

[image] 
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
Not sure if this is relavant to the conversation... but here it is.

[image] 


I get a 404 error on that.
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #10 
Perhaps it's a dropbox issue. Try this.

Fighters & Carriers Quick Sheet.jpg 

ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #11 
I see it now. I've got a couple of corrections:

1) A couple of times you spelled "Falcon" "Flacon".

2) The phrase "Bingo" usually means fighters have reached the maximum range they can safely return to the carrier and refuel. I think the word you are looking for is "Alert" or perhaps "Scramble". See this page: https://www.tailhook.net/AVSLANG.htm (and note "Bogey" is used to refer to unidentified craft and "Bandit" for identified craft, particularly fighters)

3) I like your suggestion to stick with the same fighter, and particularly to announce your name before launching in order. An individual pilot may choose to launch early (particularly if there are only two or three, not five) but launching in order seems like a very useful suggestion. Possibly follow the fighter name by "Go" or "Away".

4) As you noted, fighters should launch well away from the enemy and close after the Carrier has drawn aggro. Fighters definately don't want to close until ordinance has detonated. As I noted above, taunting after fighters have been fired at has no effect.
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #12 


1. Thanks for the heads up. I totally missed that.
2. In mission scripting the command to launch fighters is called BINGO. So I was referencing Artemis more than real life aircraft terminology.
3. I just thought it'd be nice to see how you personally did at the end, which you can't really do if you're in a different fighter each time.
4. Yeah, that makes it more important. I think you calculated taunts at two minutes right? That's quite a long time for fighters to lay on the hurt?

P.S. "Flacon" LOL...
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew

2. In mission scripting the command to launch fighters is called BINGO. So I was referencing Artemis more than real life aircraft terminology.


No, FIGHTER_BINGO tells the fighters when to return to the carrier. LAUNCH_FIGHTERS is the launch command. (And is for the carrier, while FIGHTER_BINGO is on the fighters)

Quote:

4. Yeah, that makes it more important. I think you calculated taunts at two minutes right? That's quite a long time for fighters to lay on the hurt?


Yeah, I was expecting it to be one minute too. Two minutes is pretty long for 300% enemy speed, too. I can see why they're flying into hazards.

Then again, you only get to taunt the same ship twice. You can taunt another ship in the same fleet, but you will still run out eventually. And you have to be careful not to taunt their immunity.

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