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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #46 
I see that this thread has gotten a bump. Next time I see Thom I'll ask him if he can do anything about it. I don't know if anyone other than Brian has access to the gmail account where the entries were submitted. If Thom can get to that account then we can do something about this contest. Otherwise we can't even tell who entered, let alone declare a winner. In that case I'm afraid that we can only hope that Brian resurfaces at some point.
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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #47 
I made Thom aware of the situation. He is going to find a way to make it right and get this contest judged and the awards distributed.
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speederscout

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Reply with quote  #48 
Any news or developments on this? Frankly I'd be pretty upset to find elements of any submission used in their own bridge designs without this being resolved. Otherwise it does come across as abuse of the community and a huge black eye for the Artemis organization, and no one wants that.
notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #49 
I don't think any of the submissions will be used for anything. the guy that started this was basically the fan relations guy for Artemis. As far as I can tell he just kind of up and disappeared one day.
I guess he could use submitted designs, but since I highly doubt that he will be doing anything Artemis in the future I cant imagine what he would use it for.
This was a contest that was put out by a guy that disappeared before it was completed. Thom doesnt seem to have much interest in making any "official" Artemis booths since the fans seem to be taking care of that themselves. A lot of people put some hard work into their submissions, but this may be one to just let go.

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ricka

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Reply with quote  #50 
A few corrections. Briancj is the gm of the GenCon operation every year, including this year, which stands to bring in as much as $34,000 in ticket sales at $40 per player. Without winners announced it will be hard to tell if this years bridge setup is based on a design submitted by someone on the forums though.

https://www.gencon.com/events/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&event_type=&game_code=&keyword=artemis&title=&game_system=&wed=true&thur=true&fri=true&sat=true&sun=true&hour=&commit=Search

notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #51 
well, that is news to me for sure. Looks like I had my facts all wrong...  [frown]
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Badgeguy

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny
I don't know if anyone other than Brian has access to the gmail account where the entries were submitted. If Thom can get to that account then we can do something about this contest. Otherwise we can't even tell who entered, let alone declare a winner. In that case I'm afraid that we can only hope that Brian resurfaces at some point.


Brian has resurfaced, and has attempted to contact Thom directly.  For proof that Brian is still attempting to communicate with Thom, watch the Twitch TV coding session that Thom did a few weeks back.  You will see, on screen, Brian attempting to get in touch with Thom.

There is no reason that this contest is not been resolved, winners announced and prizes distributed.

It would not surprise me at this point if legal action were to come about because of the failure on Incandescent Studios' part to fulfill the contractual obligations that they publicly entered into.
MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #53 
Are you threatening to sue over the bridge design contest?  I'm hearing a lot of words with deep legal meaning, and I just want to make sure that's what you're saying.


Based on the general flame out of this contest, I strongly suspect that there's not much chance of enforcing the "sole property" clause.  Anyone who submitted an entry is probably reasonably justified in using their entry however they want.  

Additionally, the "entries become sole property of Incandescent Workshop, LLC" - that refers to the images submitted of the design and the emailed description, as per the description in the contest announcement.  Note that it doesn't claim that the design itself becomes property of IW, just the entry.  You're free to use your design however you want, they're free to use your entry however they want.

Furthermore, unless there was a particularly unique aspect of someone's entry, there's been enough open forum bridge design discussions that I'm guessing there won't be a good way to tell what entries are used in the final design.  That sort of cuts both ways, since any physical build up could be based on a private submission or open discussion.


There is definitely support for expecting a contest to be fulfilled to it's own terms.  If it had been cancelled, there should have been some kind of announcement.  Hopefully someone from IW will make that clear.

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Fish Evans

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Reply with quote  #54 
Leagal action? what Damages would you be claiming? no entry fee, and there was no garentee of winning anything so claiming time wasted would be hard as well. the T's and C's of the contest would be consitered null and void at this point by any reasonable person.
ricka

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Reply with quote  #55 
I understand the sentiment, but agree that legal action is not the way to resolve this. A quick request to the community to forward the original submissions to a management account would allow this to be picked up off the ground and the contest completed, or at least closed by sending a gift to all the entrants if the contest isn't still to be run (free armada ticket or signed copy of the game as an example). But if Brian is still getting to run the game as a business at conventions he should make an effort to fix this.
Badgeguy

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Reply with quote  #56 
I said that it wouldn't surprise me if legal action were taken, not that I was taking any.  The value of the type of work that was requested for the contest can be substantial to a professional designer (http://www.displayworks.com/, http://www.imagecraftexhibits.com/services/design-services/, http://www.teamoneexhibits.com/).  Having said work appropriated through a method of an unfulfilled contest could be considered fraud and/or theft of intellectual property if Incandescent Workshop were ever suspected of using any of the designs at any event that they ran (GenCon, etc.).

I'm not saying that it would be the best course of action to take this to court, only that the longer this goes unresolved, the more opportunity IW has of stepping over that line with the use of one of the submitted designs.
MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #57 
I understand what you're saying, but as Fish Evans and I pointed out, there's very little standing any particular individual would have.  The only real case could be made if there was a strikingly unique aspect of an entry that was featured in a final design.  Considering the wealth of designs made freely available just on this forum, let alone in media and the wider internet, it would probably be a struggle to prove that particular aspect of a case. 

Further, as Fish Evans pointed out, there's no real standing for damages.  If the IP of the actual design was transferred, there's likely a value associated with it.  The entry as it stands, probably less so.  As it stands, I doubt a suit would gain much traction, and it wouldn't do much for either the community or the parties involved except generate bad blood.

I'd like to suggest that vague portents of legal action be tabled unless someone is considering actually taking said action.  That sort of language comes across as threatening and provocative, which I don't think is particularly helpful.  I think we'd all agree that having some word from IW one way or another would settle this, right?

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speederscout

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Reply with quote  #58 
I'm not advocating legal action, either. However, as Badgeguy pointed out, the actual "value" of a submission can vary greatly; even a quick look at bridge designs presented here on the forums shows that. And some were submitted by professional designers.
Some of the designs do have very unique, original, and/or very practical aspects, and in fact, those were the qualities sought after in the contest; that was the entire point of the contest. Finding these elements suddenly appearing in a trade show bridge design associated with the contest runner would NOT be hard to spot, or prove. The Internet, and email transmissions (submissions), is forever.
His best bet at this point is to resolve the contest by awarding winners and send a boxed copy of the game to all entrants. Leaving an official contest unresolved is a legal firestorm. In fact, it's fraud.

And that's quite illegal.
MarkBell

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speederscout
I'm not advocating legal action, either.


Great!  No need for threatening or provocative legal-ish, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speederscout

However, as Badgeguy pointed out, the actual "value" of a submission can vary greatly; even a quick look at bridge designs presented here on the forums shows that. And some were submitted by professional designers.


You are aware that professional designers submit bids to projects and can get passed over, right?  Pedigree of applicant doesn't guarantee a spot.  Does anyone know how many submissions were made?  I suspect it was over 15, although I don't actually have any idea.

And again, we come back to the "entry" vs "design" question.  As I said earlier - the design probably does have value.  The entry itself may be a different question.  I'm not an IP lawyer, although I've had some classes as part of my professional training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speederscout

Some of the designs do have very unique, original, and/or very practical aspects, and in fact, those were the qualities sought after in the contest; that was the entire point of the contest. Finding these elements suddenly appearing in a trade show bridge design associated with the contest runner would NOT be hard to spot, or prove. The Internet, and email transmissions (submissions), is forever.


That may be true enough - I haven't seen any of the actual entries, though, so I don't know for sure.  Do you know of any that are particularly unique?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speederscout

His best bet at this point is to resolve the contest by awarding winners and send a boxed copy of the game to all entrants.


That is one option that IW could present to the entrants, and clearly one you favor.  IW could also finish judging the entries and present the listed prizes to the top 15 entries.  There are lots of options that IW could take, and the people involved in the contest may have different options they favor.  In the end, it's up to IW.  They might present some options to the contest entrants and see what the majority favor, or just make a decision and move forward.  It's up to IW, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speederscout

Leaving an official contest unresolved is a legal firestorm. In fact, it's fraud. And that's quite illegal.


And we're back to threatening and provocative legal-ish.  (I'm pretty sure firestorm isn't an actual legal term, but feel free to correct me.)  Besides, I think the actual quote is "And that's terrible."

I think this forum is a relatively safe place to express whatever views you have on a variety of matters.  I'd bet just about everyone who submitted an entry into this contest is pretty frustrated by the lack of response, especially now it's nearly a year gone.  Those who have expressed their views here have made that abundantly clear.

I'd like to suggest that folks leave legal threats and analyses to attorneys.  Everyone expressing their frustration and anger don't really need legal threats to get the point across - everyone can and should make their feelings known.  The fact that there was an officially supported contest that flamed out pretty hard is obvious, and it's pretty clear that IW needs to address it.  Having some official word from IW would, I think, clear up everything, no?

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leaola

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Reply with quote  #60 
hey I was 'hurt' by this. after feel let down I stopped visiting this site for many month. that emotional damage of feeling betrayed was horrible painful.
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