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techbear

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Reply with quote  #1 
I will live-stream a coding session on Thursday August 6, 2pm-4pm, est.  I'll be working on Artemis 2.2.1.  I believe I've fixed the crash bug associated with the new monsters, but there's other bugs to fix, and lots of great issues and suggestions that you've given me, so I'll be working through those.

Here's the channel link: 
http://www.twitch.tv/techbear1980
Xavier Wise

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Reply with quote  #2 
Awesome! Looking forward to this... I should be able to watch it live this time!
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Xavier Wise

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Reply with quote  #3 
Can I make a request? Could we have a selection on the server screen that will give us the ability to disable the "Energy to Torpedo/Torpedo to Energy" conversion function?

I know this may be something that wouldn't be implemented right away, but it would mean crews end up using homing torpedoes as ordnance, instead of just additional energy supplies. Without the option of converting them, the only value would then be as a weapon.

Another option would be to make it a value that could be edited in the artemis.ini file, so the amount of energy gained could be reduced (or even increased).

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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #4 
For the amount of work involved I don't know if there would be a significant pay off for that feature. Also I don't imagine a significant demand for it.

That's an important game mechanic to most players that play normal Artemis, ie no Fuel Collection script. More so since anomalies have been nerfed.

I think that Hommings are likely to be underused as weapons unless they are changed to do more damage. Energy conversion or not.

As to other new features there are lists of them on the forums.

Just MHO...
Xavier Wise

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Reply with quote  #5 
The first option would require an addition to the UI on the server and would take more work. I do think such a feature would make torpedoes a more viable option as a weapon though, and we would see their use increased. I always thought it was a bit of a shame just to use torpedoes as energy reserves rather than in combat, and every time you fire one, in the back of your mind is "there goes another 100 energy".

The second option may be a very simple change. It is already possible to change the speed and strength of a torpedo in the artemis.ini file, though not the "flight time" (increasing the speed increases the range as the torpedo flies for a number of seconds rather than a particular distance). We have done this in the TSN RP Community, increasing the strength from 20 to 50 to make them more viable ordnance. Although it has led to an increase in their use without making them overpowered, a torpedo is still more valuable when converted to energy. 

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Fish Evans

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
For the amount of work involved I don't know if there would be a significant pay off for that feature.
  Potentialy its a very easy thing to change depending on the code, and I mean 10-15 minuets work easy. especially if its an ini value to control the energy cost/benifir values).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
Also I don't imagine a significant demand for it.
I can tell you that 20 - 30 people would be intrested in it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
That's an important game mechanic to most players that play normal Artemis
Its not a critical mechanic, and this suggestion would be and interesting additional way to vary the difficulty of the tatical game though especially if the value is variable by ini or in game settings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
More so since anomalies have been nerfed.
this too should be an ini value I feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
I think that Hommings are likely to be underused as weapons unless they are changed to do more damage.
We can already vary the Damage of homeings, but thats only half the equation.
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #7 
I'm not a programmer so I don't know what would be involved. I can see how it would be beneficial to the TSN RP Group, but then you predominantly/ exclusively play scripted missions with your FCS. Which is a bit of a cheat/crack, depending on how you look at it. I see how it fits into how you play, which is fine. But I think you're the only ones that I know of right now that put an energy making script into all their missions. I think that the default game should really be the priority.


The problem with amending the vessel data is, while it does allow you to play how you want to play which is cool. So for that thanks to the Dev for giving us that option. But the making of things more powerful makes me feel like I'm cheating, or that a feature isn't finished.
suave gav

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
I can see how it would be beneficial to the TSN RP Group, but then you predominantly/ exclusively play scripted missions with your FCS. Which is a bit of a cheat/crack, depending on how you look at it. I see how it fits into how you play, which is fine. But I think you're the only ones that I know of right now that put an energy making script into all their missions.


That feels like a narrow view of things but thats ok, an other way to look at the fuel collection system is simply expanding the game, i dont know about you but playing the same missions over and over going out shoot a fleet go back to base, go out shoot a couple fleets go back to base rinse and repeat get pretty tiresome pretty quickly,
with anomalys (random gas cans in space? was a bit of a naff dynamic to be fair) being nerfed maybe a fcs would be a better system for the default game, it would also make your science and exploration missions that you want more feesable and missiles useable as ordnance rather than just more batterys?

Xavier Wise

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
But the making of things more powerful makes me feel like I'm cheating, or that a feature isn't finished.


Being able to change the vesseldata file is more about giving players the option of customising the game, not to make things more powerful or to cheat. Adding new ships and altering the base ships have allowed people to create a whole host of mods and customise the game: the BSG and Star Trek mods are great examples. It has also allowed people to modify the standard game to give more variety (there was a ship mod created by someone that changed the scale as well as added a couple of new ship types - I'd like to stress that is was created long before the TSN Mod). 

I think the second option, of making the torpedo to energy value editable in the artemis.ini file, would provide yet another option to allow players to customise the game. If you check out the artemis.ini file, there are already a lot of values that can be customised in there, from efficiency of systems to the strength of torpedoes. It would hardly be a radical change to the way the game plays, but would provide another option for people creating missions to change something as part of a story arc.

Quote:
you predominantly/ exclusively play scripted missions with your FCS. Which is a bit of a cheat/crack, depending on how you look at it.


Interestingly, the idea for the fuel collection system was inspired by a 'ram scoop' in script written by Mike S years ago.

If you are a player who tends to just play solo or co-op games, I can see how it can seem like it is a cheat. However, we usually play one or two GM missions a night (one or two out of the four or five games we play means we don't predominantly or exclusively play scripted missions like you seem to think) and being an RP community, we are aiming for immersive gameplay.

The FCS is not a cheat or crack, it is a device that allows us to be more immersive in our gameplay. If we attack into enemy territory, the ships can stay together in their battlegroups (two ships operating together usually), rather than splitting up after each combat to fly to the other side of a sector in order to pick up an anomaly.  The FCS has its vulnerabilities too, so is not as easy to use as you think - ships have to be below 50% impulse speed and have no shields taking them out of the action and leaving them vulnerable to attack. As a result, ships have to be well hidden, back from the action, or defended by other ships whilst they refuel. You don't just get an energy drop when you switch it on - it is more like a steady recharge rate, slightly higher than you would get with all systems powered down. 

The FCS therefore allows us to be more immersive when playing (and has created a few tense situations) and allows us to run missions to sectors without any allied bases (travelling deep into unknown/ enemy territory) which means you have to start thinking about your ordnance use more. If we were to remove it, we would either have to have loads of anomalies everywhere (running 5 ships in a combat situation takes a lot of energy) or would end up with ships sitting around for extended periods of time with all systems powered down to allow them to recharge. Both these alternatives would make the game less enjoyable for those who play in our group. If you had been a member of our group before we had the FCS, you may appreciate that, and possibly see how it opened up the game for much more diverse missions for us to design and play.

Arrew, I know you dislike me, and by extension have a dislike of the group I run. I don't think you saying we use cheats, or accusing us of trying to crack the game to make it easier, is fair though, particularly when that was not really anything to do with the request I made. I have requested an addition to allow us to customise the game. It isn't something that would force players to change, and would in fact be something that most players never actually see if it is added to the artemis.ini file. I have a feeling it wouldn't take a significant amount of work either (based on discussion and comments with others who know more about this) but I admit that only Thom really knows how long it might take. 

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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #10 
Like I said I think the vessel Data is awesome. The customization of Artemis is its real strength. Again for the second time this thread I'd like to thank the Dev for that.

I also said I understand why it would be useful for your group in relation to your FCS. But then you don't use anomalies for energy do you? And I think the Dev is likely, and should, focus on improvements for players of the default/actual game.

Energy management is a part of the game that I do think you might be missing out on, but then I know you are an RPgroup and focus on story and immersion. I applaud you for that, since I'm an RP fan too.


My comments were not an attack but even you admit to playing the game differently and since we are talking about energy It was relevant.

As to damage I said "I feel" that I've cheated if I need to adjust damage from the default. Kind of like I've failed the challenge of Artemis by it's creator. I'm not saying you have to feel that way. But perhaps by mentioning it the Dev may do something, or not as he sees fit.
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #11 
Xavier I really have to tell you that I do feel hurt and sad by your comments. In everything from our Private Messages to your comments on threads such as the black hole one and sandbox stuff I've tried to always assume you meant things kindly, even when they seemed nasty.

I've really tried and I thought you would to?

Why do you feel so threatened if I don't agree with you? No I don't dislike your group. However right now my opinion of you is pretty low.

Not that you care in the least I'm sure. This is such an awesome online community. My thanks to those that have made it so.
Xavier Wise

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Reply with quote  #12 
Energy management is definatly not something we are missing out on. If you were actually a member of our group now, or had stuck around a bit longer, you would probably know this. In fact, you have little to no knowledge of how we play; most of what you say is based upon your limited experience if playing in our group and the rest is based on assumption.

Quite honestly, I am fed up of your remarks about our group. You are a bully. In this thread alone you have accused us of using cheats, basically said my idea is invalid and of no worth and that our group makes the game less challenging to play. You deliberatly try to highlight the stuff we do as negatively as possible. It seems if I even dare to mention my group you launch in to an attack. You said before that I bring it up too much in PMs, but even if I seem to be hinting at it you go mad.

You seem to dominate every topic. Everything I try to post you shout down with thinly veiled insults and negative remarks. I have not experienced this from any other person on this forum. The TSN is a large and active group. We have played almost every weekend for about 2 and 1/2 years now, with 20, 30 and even 40 people taking part! I believe this makes our feedback valid and worth proper discussion rather than a simple dismissal from you. We have taken this game and built on it with ideas on how to play, mission scripts and a mod, all with the intention of giving people the chance to play as part of a large group, on a regular basis, and for a few hour live out those Star Trek moments we all love. We even share what we do so people can enjoy our work as well. This we have done and are still doing. We love the game, want to support it and make suggestions on how to improve. You seem to think that our opinion matters not.

I will say no more on this as, once again, another topic seems to have been dragged into a petty argument. Can a moderator please delete everything including post 4 onwards! None if it is actually relevant!

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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #13 
So your argument,again, is that there is some great secret that I don't get? Enlighten me? So you have a script that recovers energy faster when you OOM. What's so magical? Energy management and making sure you don't run out is part of the game. But I'm on record as saying people should play how they like to play. If you like it fine. But I'd hazard a guess that it's not the norm.

But the Dev needs to cater to those that play the standard game which you say you don't even play!

Also... I attack you whenever you mention the TSN huh? You mentioned them in about 4 threads recently to which I didn't comment. So that argument falls flat.

I don't have a problem with the TSN RP Group, just you right now. I admire your scripters and modders. The fact that you didn't even want the mod, which you said in a PM, is kind of ironic.

No matter how many nice messages and peace offerings I try you seem to have a real stick up your butt about me.

I didn't say that your opinion doesn't matter. But because I don't agree with you I'm bullying you? Is that it, because I don't agree with Captain Xavier I'm a deviant? Is that what gets to you. You somehow outrank the common folk in terms of input?

Man I'm tired of being nice to you. Go jump in a blackhole.
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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #15 
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