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davidtrinh

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Reply with quote  #16 
@kidkissinger, I appreciate it. I get a lot of joy knowing other people are having a blast with something I contributed to. Be sure to double scan those red vessels in Science!
davidtrinh

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Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #17 

We just finished two escort mission across several sectors of space between two divisions this past week here in Canada. It was a convoy moving cargo through, so I've added a convoy into Nginecho! Testing seems to create no visible bugs. So it is now released for your consumption. Happy escorting, they work for the Telleron Consortium by the way.

http://services.tsn-artemis.ca/ (Production)


http://services-test.tsn-artemis.ca/ (Test and Staging)
http://nginecho-test.tsn-artemis.ca/ (BETA/development)

<!-- Script Engine 2018-10-18 for Artemis 2.7.1 at services.tsn-artemis.ca -->

CHANGE LOG:
2018-10-18
- added more ship names to the roster of derelicts
- Cargo ships now move in Convoys, be sure to protect them as they move through the map. They typically move in 4+ together at a time.

davidtrinh

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Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #18 

The integration of the OpenSpace universe I created in the fall of 2018 has opened up much discussion on where this project is going.
https://github.com/A1ON5678/This1ofMany.TSNUniverses

My first thought was to incorporate the Milky Way into the game mechanics. So with bits of research time, I have learned much about astrophysics and the immense size of our galaxy. In the last 60 years, we have used our technology to map out spiral arms of Milky Way. Personally, it really has been an eye opener.

Using the data from two sources and some rough eye balling, these calculations are approximate. My two references to date are, the Digital Universe Atlas using Partial View. https://www.amnh.org/our-research/hayden-planetarium/digital-universe/download/download-files

The 100,000 Stars interactive visualization of the stellar neighbourhood created for the Google Chrome web browser. It shows the real location of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 major named stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist's rendition.
https://experiments.withgoogle.com/100000-stars

 
Our flight tests with our TSN/USN officers to date results in approximately a 30 sectors coverage in a scout class ship, running at 99.9% energy efficiency.

Given it takes about 1 hour to fly at warp 1.3 (acceleration+travel+decelerate) 30 sectors.

24 hours = 720 sectors

365 days x 720 sectors = 262,800 sectors per year

4.3 years x 262,800 sectors = 1,130,040 sectors

This is relative time for the crew. On earth, approximately 5.9 years will have passed. That is the number of sectors we'd must traverse using a scout ship to get to the Proxima Centuri, the closest star to our sun.

The next steps are to incorporate these numbers into the NginEcho map and mission generator I built last year.

Realistically, I know a typical Artemis game is usually between 20 minutes to one hour. So I would not ask anyone to participate in any kind of 4.3 year deep space mission. At least I have some kind of base understanding of the scale I am working in. The Oort cloud is the only thing that is close to us, which translates in to nebula in Artemis. Otherwise, there's not much for 4.3 light year, if we were to attempt to traverse local interstellar space.  

ryleyra

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Posts: 2,906
Reply with quote  #19 
Just to say it, but it's generally accepted that the Warp Drive concept gets around the time dilation effect by compressing the distance the ship has to travel. For instance, if the ship only travels 10% of the actual distance from Sol to Proxima Centauri, it should be able to make the 4 year trip at only 10% of the speed of light, relatively speaking. And the time dilation effects only begin to become significant at 90% of the speed of light, which means the Artemis crew could go 50% of the speed of light - 5 times the speed of light at Warp - and only have to set their clocks back by a few hours or maybe a day.

We also can't be sure Artemis operates according to the same laws of physics as our universe. I know Mike has mentioned that he wants to write some stories based in the setting, but I have no idea how he plans to deal with the subject. It does seem a little extreme for the 60 some-odd years of the Artemis timeline to actually take place over half a million years.

And that's not even bringing Jump Drive into the equation. 😃
davidtrinh

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Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #20 
You're right, I did not take into account Special Relativity. There's a calculator I used on this website to do some of the math.
https://gregsspacecalculations.blogspot.com/2014/11/relativistic-rocket-calculator.html

I updated my original post to reflect the Earth Time vs. Crew Time with this calculation. 
5.92 vs 3.56 years. (This is some rough/quick math) where velocity is 0.9505c.

Nonetheless, it still doesn't fit into practical play time of 20-60 minutes of play time. 

I'm not sure how to even manage jump drive, given I don't have anyway in the game mechanics to initiate the FTL and jump to entirely different sector. That is an identified limitation of the implementation, rather than definition of energy vs. distance on a sector jump.

I know the TSN use jump gates. It was suggested we use stable worm holes. I can only imagine DS9 when I hear that.

One of my objective is to try to tie as much as we can to current understand of applied physics while developing these concepts in the game. But I understand I cannot entirely do that since we end up talking about theoretical physics. 

Thanks for your important point on time dilation when we approach 90% of the speed of light.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ryleyra
Just to say it, but it's generally accepted that the Warp Drive concept gets around the time dilation effect by compressing the distance the ship has to travel. For instance, if the ship only travels 10% of the actual distance from Sol to Proxima Centauri, it should be able to make the 4 year trip at only 10% of the speed of light, relatively speaking. And the time dilation effects only begin to become significant at 90% of the speed of light, which means the Artemis crew could go 50% of the speed of light - 5 times the speed of light at Warp - and only have to set their clocks back by a few hours or maybe a day.

We also can't be sure Artemis operates according to the same laws of physics as our universe. I know Mike has mentioned that he wants to write some stories based in the setting, but I have no idea how he plans to deal with the subject. It does seem a little extreme for the 60 some-odd years of the Artemis timeline to actually take place over half a million years.

And that's not even bringing Jump Drive into the equation. 😃
ryleyra

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Posts: 2,906
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtrinh

Nonetheless, it still doesn't fit into practical play time of 20-60 minutes of play time. 


Well, that goes without saying. 😃

I've noted a few posts here and there which toy with the idea of an Artemis mission that would take place in "real time". As in, once the crew receives a mission and begins to Warp towards their destination, the ship must cross multiple sectors (possibly at a slower speed) so the crew can rest and kill time playing games in the lounge or whatever. When they arrive on the scene in the mission, the crew are recalled to the bridge and the combat begins.

I think this would actually be pretty cool, but the game doesn't really support it. Even the TSN Sandbox takes a relatively short period of time to get from one sector to another, and everything is packed into a small space. So either time is compressed for the sake of gameplay, or the ship is moving much faster than it would appear to be according to the game mechanics.

Complicating this is that Thom designed the ship to use a lot of energy in order to force the players to protect their bases, which makes it difficult to travel long distances between bases. The TSN Sandbox changes the configuration to get around this, but it's still an issue, especially once your maps get really large.

Quote:

I'm not sure how to even manage jump drive, given I don't have anyway in the game mechanics to initiate the FTL and jump to entirely different sector. That is an identified limitation of the implementation, rather than definition of energy vs. distance on a sector jump.

I know the TSN use jump gates. It was suggested we use stable worm holes. I can only imagine DS9 when I hear that.


A lot of scripts, including the Sandbox, simply "fake" Jump Drive by making the ship perform some procedure and then remove them from the old sector and add them to the new one. (Actually, the sector is just re-formed around the ship. but again, limitations of the game mechanics) This works best with Jump Gates, which are at a set location, but theoretically you could have it happen anywhere in the sector on initiation by the crew.

Of course, you can also use edge-to-edge traversal with Jump Drive being used to jump from one edge to another. This would seem to limit Jump range to one sector.

I'll note that I have theorized that TSN jump drives are limited to around 100km, (whatever a "km" is in universe) but Ximni Jump Drives use a "flywheel effect" that enables them to build up energy in the jump drive over time. This means their long range jumps take a lot more time than short range or combat jumps, meaning it would in theory take as much time to make a jump of one light year as to make 100,000 jumps of 1/100,000 of a light year. You just spend that time "spinning up" the Jump Drive instead of making hop after hop.

I even came up with this idea before the Ximni ships appeared and we saw their ring-shaped jump engines, although I did have a bit of a preview with the Science Vessel design.

Anyway, we have to make some assumptions trying to apply the rules of the game to a larger universe, as it doesn't make a lot of sense if just scaled up. You can try to extrapolate from the inspirations for Artemis, Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, but IMHO I think Artemis works better if it is a more primitive technology than those series, and is somewhat more limited in its range.

ryleyra

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Posts: 2,906
Reply with quote  #22 
BTW, if you haven't seen them yet, look over my posts on the size of a sector:

https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/what-size-is-a-sector-the-question-of-scale-7044196?&trail=15
https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/what-size-is-a-sector-revisited-7537479?pid=1288256710
NoseyNick

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Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #23 
Sounds like TOMORROW you might have some more interesting research material - first pictures of the Sagittarius A black hole?

-- Nick
davidtrinh

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Posts: 53
Reply with quote  #24 
I soon discovered the uinames' API blocked the engine because it exceeded the pull requests. So that tells me people are using it as I haven't really reviewed the usage logs as of recent. So I updated the code to use fixed DamCon team names. I know... perhaps I'll move this application into a database, but in the meantime it remains as a stand-alone web app.

Application is updated as of September 13, 2019.

http://nginecho-test.tsn-artemis.ca/
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