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DupeOfURL

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Reply with quote  #1 

Face it, fighters are weak.  They take 15 hits and die.  For comparison, even Scouts have 40 shields Fore and 40 Aft then take internal damage before blowing up!  And slow, when {unfairly} compared to Warp drive ships.  So, HOW do we keep these rapscallions alive??  Employ what I call The Big Slab of Bacon approach.  In it, one ship {or in extremis, a fighter, or perhaps a bomber?} needs to keep the enemy ship(s) focused on them.  Best performed by one of them BIG honkers, one with LOTS of shields and a big gun, like a dreadnought or a battleship.  But lacking one of those a Scout or Light Cruiser, could that that w/ some timely taunting {and the occasional Homing torpedo}.  If flying solo, the carrier becomes The Bacon.  A good helm can keep you JUST out of their beams.  And a good engineer can boost shields and/or impulse as needed.   The ideal is, as always, to MINIMIZE damage taken and MAXIMUM damage dealt. 

Now to generalized tactics.  When defending a base, try to attack from the flank.  Even better, from the rear.  The rationale for this is to disrupt the enemy's course to said base.  Use an EMP.  {Who wouldn't want to take down enemy's shields by half?}  Try to "clump" them up to maximize the effect.  Launch fighters and then work you way to the other side of the enemy.  Science needs to be doing 2nd scans to get Captain info to feed Comms IF a taunt is called for by the Capt'n.  Helm needs to stay close, but not TO close.  Weapons needs to shoot down any drones the enemy may launch.  One may also close enough to beam an enemy ship, just to get their attention.  The Capt'n {or Sci or even a designed Combat Air Controller w/ a Captain's Map screen} will need to "ride herd" on the fighters to keep them ganged up and on target.  And to make sure the enemy is still following the Bacon.  Best to work as a wolf pack {or a lion pride}.  Pick a target, blow'em up!  {Repeat on next target.}  And to inform Comms as to Who To Ask To Surrender from.  Pilots, ideally you will be getting back attacks.  IF you damage their drive, feel free to use your brakes and stay in a firing position

This is basically it.  No BIG SECRETS, just trying my best to translate Dicta Boelcke to Artemis,  I am sure there WILL be adaptations & improvements, please feel free to share them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke 

 Fascinating.  I don't usually paw thru the VesselData.XML file, but I just recently found this tag:
<carrierload fighter="5" bomber="2"/>
Can't help but wonder{HOPE!} to see bombers @ Armada this year.  Not sure bases will need to stock some spare bombers until I see them in action. 


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ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #2 
First of all, bombers are on the way, at Artemis Armada. [biggrin] They will be released to the public soon after. See this post: https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/fighters-and-bombers-and-shuttles-8436563?trail=15

Now, to your tactics. Fighters should have 140 shield points. That's 100 more than a Scout and 55 more than an Arvonian fighter's shields and hull combined. If you are getting destroyed in a fighter, you would probably get destroyed in a Scout even faster. And while a Scout does more damage, it can't maintain it very long without overheating its beam, while a fighter can do 4 DPS indefinitely.

Of course, as you pointed out, once the shields are down, the Scout takes WAY more damage than any fighter or enemy ship. But that's because damage is done per hit, not per amount of damage. It takes 73 hits to destroy a Scout. At 10 points damage per hit (at difficulty 10, presumably, or diff 5 for a Skaraan) that's 730 damage. Of course, lots of little beams firing very often will kill a player ship a lot faster than one big beam firing slowly. But player ships are resilient, by design.

What fighters are is expendable. You can lose your fighter and still keep playing, assuming you have a replacement. Replacements are rare, though, so you've probably got the right idea. One fighter charging in to attack an enemy, even a Kralien, is suicide on high difficulty. Five fighters charging in to attack an enemy with the carrier providing cover fire and even drawing off fire, that's survivable.

One thing I'll point out which I have discovered is that once the fighters begin firing on the enemy and it commits to firing back, taunts will have no effect. You should taunt BEFORE the fighters get into range. Likewise, your idea of opening up with an EMP is a great one. Not only does it draw fire onto the carrier and off the fighters, but the fighters only have to get through 1/2 the shields before they get to the hull.

You CAN designate a fighter to fire the first shot and pull the return fire off everyone else. But that's suicide for the fighter, while a capital ship can survive it. The target fighter may wish to try to get behind the enemy and stay out of its target arcs. But fighters are actually pretty slow compared to Arvonian fighters, once you get to max difficulty.

One thing you should NEVER do is launch fighters while in range of the enemy. They'll be cut to ribbons before they even get out of the tubes. You should launch before engaging the enemy, and make sure to coordinate your attack with the carrier. It isn't just a big launching pad, it has beams and missiles for a reason. [biggrin] 

I'll also add that now that fighters can target drones, they can switch roles, and act as point defense while the Carrier/Dreadnought fires missiles. Once the area is clear (you don't want to fly into an EMP, after all, much less a Nuke) the fighters can swoop in and Weapons can take over the role of drone defense. It has been confirmed that in the next release, Missile Cruisers will have shuttles that can perform that role. So they'll have some protection against drones other than just taking it to the face.
Vason

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Reply with quote  #3 
Carrier's themselves make for excellent bacon. Taunt the enemy group, EMP them, then have the fighters swoop in for the kill. A full wing of 5 can deal 400 damage in their opening salvo of missiles alone, which, when combined with the earlier EMP, is usually enough to assassinate any enemy ship in the game.

What fighters have over the bigger ships is maneuverability. They can fly easily in all 3 dimensions, and so can more easily exploit gaps in beam arcs in a strafing run. Even at higher difficulties, a well-piloted wing of fighters, with 1 to 2 shots of carrier support, can take on any fleet without losses.

What they get hosed on are encounters with Arvonian fighters. Going wing vs. wing at Max difficulty, Arvo's will absolutely shred player fighters. They are far faster, deal more damage, and far more able to gang up on a single target and kill them in 2 shots.(6 fighters x 15 damage = 90 points!). Carrier support is crucial in these engagements, with a well-placed nuke not being outside the realm of possibility.

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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #4 
As Vason said. 

Have the Carrier taunt or fire on the enemy fleet first, then launch fighters. They'll ignore the fighters for the Carrier, can't remember for how long off the top of my head.

Also fighters Homings are auto resupplied at docking. Which means a wing of fighters each firing 3 Hommings is like the damage output of two Nukes against a single target, and they can just rinse and repeat. The Carrier should name the priority target and the fighters should launch Hommings at the start of the engagement. 

Managed correctly a Carrier and Fighters can be a bit OP in the standard game.

I know there are a few tactical things about on the forums on youtube. You can find them if you nose around...
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #5 
This may or not be beneficial but this is the stuff that I have right now...

[image] 

&



ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew

Also fighters Homings are auto resupplied at docking. Which means a wing of fighters each firing 3 Hommings is like the damage output of two Nukes against a single target, and they can just rinse and repeat. The Carrier should name the priority target and the fighters should launch Hommings at the start of the engagement. 


Yeah, basically a wing of 5 fighters is essentially a Missile Cruiser with 15 torpedo tubes loaded with nothing but Homings. (I'm not sure where Vason got 400 but maybe he has Homing damage set to 25) When you consider that it takes 30 seconds for fighters to resupply, your fire rate is approximately 1 missile every two seconds, compared to one missile every 1.5 seconds for a Missile Cruiser. (with 250% boost)

A good strategy for Arvonian fighters may be to take them out with missiles before they can get in range. 5 missiles should take out an Arvonian fighter. So 2 fighters should be able to take out 1 Arvonian, cutting their numbers in half. 3 Arvonians are still a threat, but you outnumber them 5 to 3.
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #7 
Fighters could be mined or just back off, wait for them to land and blow up the carrier and fighters with a massive salvo of all the fighters homings. 
DupeOfURL

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Reply with quote  #8 
I  must admit I'd like to see some experience fighters pull this off  --  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave 
MAY prove handy vs faster Arvonian fighters {Id Est higher difficulty settings}.   

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Vason

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DupeOfURL
I  must admit I'd like to see some experience fighters pull this off  --  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave 
MAY prove handy vs faster Arvonian fighters {Id Est higher difficulty settings}.   


I could see the working, at least to a point, given the AI tendency to focus in on a target and not let go. The not letting go part, along with how AI fighter squadrons attack all as a group, might prove an issue, however. I do like the idea, though, and definitly want to give it a shot.

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DupeOfURL

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Reply with quote  #10 
I have been toying with an idea for a minimally crewed carrier.  Take all bombers.  Get within action range, lob in an EMP.  Launch bomber, bit the brakes, launch 6 Homing Missiles, dock.  Repeat.  4 more times if needed.  And MAYBE the first bomber will be re-fitted!  If the target has anti-missile, Weapons should wait until a couple Homings are in the air, THEN lob in the EMP. 
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