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Xavier Wise

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Posts: 1,042
Reply with quote  #16 
@DeathByGiraffe

That is a disgusting and shameful way to directly insult someone on the internet.

I expressed disappointment that the new release has affected the original selling point (and it was a selling point). Had it been a single license purchase for $20, $30 or $40 dollars then I would likely have made that purchase anyway. As it was put across as a "group purchase", I purchased it as a group. Now that group purchase has been made irrelavent. I may have well just have bought myself a copy for $40 rather than chip in the money to buy it as a group.

This point does not mean that I do not think this game is a good game or worth the $40. It does not mean that I would not have paid full the amount. Also, it does not mean that I won't pay the full price for the upgrade, and enjoy playing it. If I had made the initial purchase of $40 to get a single bridge license, there would be no disappointment what-so-ever. I continued to argue the point was due to the fact that I would not be the only person in this situation. I also felt that people were unclear about the point I was making.

@vrfdirk

With regards to the point about "stepping on toes"; the fact that people are able to respond to my points in a civilised and more reasoned and intelligent manner is something that I greatly appreciate. Such responses are much more likely to persuade and alter the opinions of others and therefore are much more powerful than open insults. To support someone who so obviously insults someone by calling it "glorious" is something that is quite inappropriate in my opinion.

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Stonefish

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Reply with quote  #17 
It's true.  I'm a fan of well-reasoned responses in place of argumentum ad hominem.  But some folk just have it coming.
janx

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Posts: 459
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Wise

This point does not mean that I do not think this game is a good game or worth the $40. It does not mean that I would not have paid full the amount. Also, it does not mean that I won't pay the full price for the upgrade, and enjoy playing it. If I had made the initial purchase of $40 to get a single bridge license, there would be no disappointment what-so-ever. I continued to argue the point was due to the fact that I would not be the only person in this situation. I also felt that people were unclear about the point I was making.


Not speaking to those other guys' post, this statement makes your prior posts about $40 have a different context.

I'm sorry to say, but the prior posts sounded more like whining about having to pay $40 to solve your problem.

This new post gets more to the point that YOU do not actually have a problem with the $40 price to get back into the game.

I think the opposition to your post was that it held the position that $40 was an insurmountable hurdle (hyperbole on my part) for some people.

I stand by the position that I think most of us hold, that nobody who can't afford $40 on a video game is or should be playing this game based on the other technical expenses it logically entails and the better uses for that money somebody in dire financial straits has.  It's not like we're saying Purple People can't vote or get married.

Nextly, at least for myself, it's a pet peeve to have people arguing about the harm the Purple People are suffering when they themselves are not, in fact, Purple.  Let the Purple People gather in the village commons and voice their concerns themselves.  You are welcome to stand behind them in support of their cause.  But they better be holding their own signs and chanting their own slogans.  Otherwise, you're just rabble rousing to stir up a controversy that doesn't exist.

Your prior post here presented yourself as being against the $40 fee to solve your licensing problem.  That struck myself and apparently others as petty.

So, the context of what you argue and how you argue it relative to your actual position matters.  It certainly affected how others responded.


tallasse

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #19 
Look,

I've spent way more money, time, and effort on Artemis than all but a handful of people in the last couple of years. I've spent more than $4k in equipment, I've spent hundreds of hours on constructing stations, building machines, soldering hardware, mission scripting, and modding, I've paid for 2 full licenses now, and am planning on buying another one in a few days just to support the game. I take the game to cons and introduce hundreds of people to Artemis. I really *really* like this game and am willing to shell out way more than $40 for it.

That being said, people are entitled to whatever opinion they want. Some of you guys are being straight-up dicks and piling on to a dude cause they have a different opinion about the price of a game? Not everyone has a lot of money these days, and that fact is, if you paid $40 for your license and $5 to upgrade, you're paying $5 *more* than someone who buys the game next week. I can see why some people don't like that. I don't care, I like the game, I want to support it, and I can afford it - but that doesn't mean everyone can, or that everyone should share my opinion.

And you, DeathByGiraffe, are tossing around words like "indefensible" and "insulting," and saying "I hope you whiners have no experience in the real world blah blah blah." How can you complain that an opinion is insulting and then go ad-hominem on someone? In the real world, that's called being a hypocrite. In the real world, being a dick to someone because they have a different opinion is called being a jackass and loses you friends. In the real world, some folks have different opinions than you, and theirs is as valid as yours. Deal with it.

Don't we have a community manager for these forums? Let's get on top of this crap and get it out of here.
Mike Substelny

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Posts: 2,180
Reply with quote  #20 
PirateGent asked:

Crazy question - 

Will the missions that worked in v1.70 work in v2.0?

The short answer is "mostly." While the 2.0 scripting system has some major changes, Thom is working hard to make it backward compatible with our old 1.7 scripts.

Still, even if your old scripts work perfectly well you may want to upgrade them anyway to be more fun. Here are two examples:

  1. The players can now travel in 3-D, so if your script uses a black hole as an obstacle in Artemis 1.7 the players can simply fly over it in Artemis 2.0.
  2. Both enemies and friendly NPCs navigate more intelligently, picking paths that are not straight lines in order to avoid minefields, monsters, and such.

For the long answer I will start another thread under the Mission Scripting forums.

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John Richardson

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Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techbear

---When will Artemis 2.0 be released?
The PC version will be available on August 14, 2013.

---How much will it cost?
The PC bridge license will remain $40 USD. Players who have already purchased an Artemis PC bridge license are entitled to a coupon, so they can buy V2.0 for the upgrade price of $5 USD.



Thank you for your hard work and diligence Thom, I am looking forward to the 14th and buying this brilliant upgrade! 

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Admiral Legasse

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hang on,

Mike Substelny said:
Quote:

  1. The players can now travel in 3-D, so if your script uses a black hole as an obstacle in Artemis 1.7 the players can simply fly over it in Artemis 2.0.

You're tellin' me the ship will be able to fly straight trough the polar jets completely unscathed?  Fuhgeddaboudit!  Back in my early days at the academy we saw news stories of vessels gettin' too close to gamma ray bursts, and BAM! no more crew or ship's systems, just an irradiated scrap heap left floating adrift in space. 
tt1701

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Posts: 4
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Legasse

You're tellin' me the ship will be able to fly straight trough the polar jets completely unscathed?  Fuhgeddaboudit!  Back in my early days at the academy we saw news stories of vessels gettin' too close to gamma ray bursts, and BAM! no more crew or ship's systems, just an irradiated scrap heap left floating adrift in space. 


You are assuming the jets are pointing straight up and down.  They could be at an angle to the galactic plane, making for a fun, intergalactic dodgeball game. 

Can't wait for 2.0!
AdmlBaconStraps

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #24 
Quick question on the mobile updates:

Any idea how far behind they'll be?

My crew is meeting on the 17th (Australian time, so 16th for you US guys) so we'll have plenty of time to get PC's set up with v.2, but we use a lot of iPads on our bridge.

Will the apple release happen in time for us? it's fine if it won't, just curious if we'll be able to play around with v.2 or not..
DeathByGiraffe

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Posts: 4
Reply with quote  #25 
@tallassee

I think you're accusing my comment of singling out one poster, because he had the misfortune of being the first person on THIS iteration of the forum to make a version of the "why do I have to pay?" argument. In fact, the scenarios I mocked had nothing to do with his described circumstances.

I stand by my observation that whining about having to pay money to compensate a man, not even a company, but a SINGLE PERSON, for creating a wholly unique, fun, and engrossing game with zero copy protection and consistent free updates is "indefensible" and "insulting".

Of course people are entitled to their opinions.  They are also entitled to be judged based on those opinions.  Your response proves that I am not exempt, either.

Also, being a hypocrite is asking for forum policing while throwing out words like "jackass" and "dick".
janx

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Posts: 459
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Legasse
Hang on,

Mike Substelny said:
Quote:

  1. The players can now travel in 3-D, so if your script uses a black hole as an obstacle in Artemis 1.7 the players can simply fly over it in Artemis 2.0.

You're tellin' me the ship will be able to fly straight trough the polar jets completely unscathed?  Fuhgeddaboudit!  Back in my early days at the academy we saw news stories of vessels gettin' too close to gamma ray bursts, and BAM! no more crew or ship's systems, just an irradiated scrap heap left floating adrift in space. 


Sounds like something a science vessel should go research.

My ship will be WAAAAY over there.  I don't mess with singularities.  You can lose a girlfriend that way and rack up a huge therapy bill.
anwoke8204

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Posts: 188
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techbear


---How will I get a coupon code, so I can buy 2.0 for $5us?

All coupon codes will be emailed. You can currently buy the game digitally from two companies; FastSpring, and MyCommerce/RegNow. You will get coupons good at both online stores.

If you purchased from those online stores in the past, we have your email and will email the coupon codes to you in time for you to use one when the game becomes available.

If you don't get a coupon code in a timely fashion, feel free to send an email to artemissbs@gmail.com, and attach proof of purchase (forwarding your email receipt works). We will reply with the coupon codes.



When will the coupon codes be mailed out?
Fluff

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Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #28 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallasse
if you paid $40 for your license and $5 to upgrade, you're paying $5 *more* than someone who buys the game next week.
This is very much why I'm rubbed the wrong way about this. It's a problem of perception. By charging your old customers $5 for the upgrade and not charging new customers any additional money, you create the perception that you value new customers above the old customers. Is the upgrade worth $5 more? If it is, why is a full license for new customers not $45?

It also creates the perception that it'd be better to wait to buy the game until it is "finished", since it doesn't cost a new customer any additional money to buy later versus buying now. Why not wait and buy the game once rather than being nickle-and-dimed for the updates?

And really, it doesn't make any sense to charge for the update and not increase the price of the license since any reasonable person could simply request a refund for the $40 (which you're guaranteed to get: "We have ALWAYS offered a 100% no-questions money-back guarantee for Artemis, and we always will.") and then buy a new license for $40. So yes, you can get a free update; it just requires a bit of work.

Shadowstep

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Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluff

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallasse
if you paid $40 for your license and $5 to upgrade, you're paying $5 *more* than someone who buys the game next week.
This is very much why I'm rubbed the wrong way about this. It's a problem of perception. By charging your old customers $5 for the upgrade and not charging new customers any additional money, you create the perception that you value new customers above the old customers. Is the upgrade worth $5 more? If it is, why is a full license for new customers not $45?

It also creates the perception that it'd be better to wait to buy the game until it is "finished", since it doesn't cost a new customer any additional money to buy later versus buying now. Why not wait and buy the game once rather than being nickle-and-dimed for the updates?

And really, it doesn't make any sense to charge for the update and not increase the price of the license since any reasonable person could simply request a refund for the $40 (which you're guaranteed to get: "We have ALWAYS offered a 100% no-questions money-back guarantee for Artemis, and we always will.") and then buy a new license for $40. So yes, you can get a free update; it just requires a bit of work.



I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your opinion or that your opinion is wrong, but I'd like to point out that this is the same case as OS upgrades or major upgrades to software packages.

I bought Adobe Photoshop 7 years ago (that it was Photoshop 7 should indicate how many years ago).  Adobe then released Photoshop CS.  If I wanted the new features of CS, I had to either buy a whole new seat of the software (around $450, IIRC) or I could buy an "Upgrade" license for about 1/2 the cost.  Same with operating systems - I can buy Windows 8 today, only to have Windows 9 perhaps come out next month at the same price point.  Then I have to buy an upgrade license or buy a new license for the software.

Honestly, yes - it kinda stinks that you have to pay more than a brand new licensor to get the same output.  At the same time, it's the only way that the developer can ensure that there is a continued revenue stream to support further development.

Now - all of that is kind of off the original topic.  My question (and granted, I haven't looked too hard yet) is where can I see screenshots of the new UI?
Shadowstep

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Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowstep
...

Now - all of that is kind of off the original topic.  My question (and granted, I haven't looked too hard yet) is where can I see screenshots of the new UI?


Proof I didn't look hard enough - I found the answer as soon as I backed out one level.
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