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notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #16 

AAR: Artemis Armada V Training Mission #2;

The sector is comprised of 3 enemy bases with enemy ships as defenses (Primarily Torgoth), some asteroids and a handful of astro fuana. If viewed in the standard lRS view, the enemy stations will be oriented from left to right; Torgoth station, Torgoth station and Arvonian station.

Our mission was to test the "wreck beacon" developed by the TSN to "paint" enemy stations for boarding by TSN Marine landing craft.

Standard enemy defensive intelligence shows that Torgoth bases, in addition to patrol vessels, have onboard torpedo launchers and Arvonian bases have fighter wings ready for deployment. 

The TSN Gungnir attacked the Arvonian base first, dispatching the defending vessels and then the reserve wing of fighters aboard the base clearing the way for the landing craft. Once we were within 100km of the enemy base we launched the beacon. Then realized that the beacon was taken from ship stores and launched like a normal beacon even though it was launched by comms (ie. as a mine). Redeploying the beacon two landing craft appeared at the bottom edge of the LRS screen. The landing craft were very fast for a non-capital ship, but be prepared for a wait as the craft travel from one side of the sector to the other. The Marines were able to capture the base without trouble.

After the Arvonian base was captured, the command staff decided to attempt dropping one beacon after the other and then sweep around to defeat the enemy vessels as the landing craft traveled to the beacon points. The Gungnir moved to the center Torgoth base, dropped the beacon, saw two landing craft appear at the bottom edge of LRS, then proceeded to moved directly to the second Torgoth base and drop the next beacon. The second pair of landing craft appeared and moved towards the second target. The Gungnir neutralized the enemy vessels and watched as the landing craft made their way towards the targeted bases. The pair of landing craft heading towards the Torgoth base that was targeted last reached their destination and captured the enemy base. However, one of the pair heading towards the Torgoth base that was targeted initially banked off from its partner and started flying in a sprawling vaguely circular flight path as its partner continued towards its objective. The single landing craft assaulted the Torgoth base, but was fought off. The Gungnir dropped another Beacon on the remaining enemy base and not only did the TSN send two additional landing craft, but the original landing craft proceeded towards the remaining enemy base with the beacon nearby and was able to capture the base before the other two landing craft were able to reach the target.

Time to completion of simulation: 16min.
No crashes or problems to report with simulation

Additional information: My science officer estimates that it would take roughly 3 Torgoth missiles to destroy a single TSN landing craft. As stated previously the landing craft are very fast for what they are and if they are assaulting a Torgoth base with no other defenses the base will likely only get a single missile hit on one of the landing craft before the assault is under way.

Captain if the TSN Gungnir signing off.


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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Rust


Awesome! A big box of minis sounds like a good time to me!

I have been looking into the details of the map -- things like surface texture, portability, reliability, luminescence, blah blah, blah . . . and have decided to switch technologies in the interests of making something that will actually work. One major hurdle is the venue. Ambient light in a conference center tends to be rather high, so I'm leaning towards a full-color printed surface. I found a commercially available starfield/nebula 72" x 72" print on sturdy fabric that will work perfectly. Rather than back- or front-lighting the map in a bright room, I'm looking into implementing bright RGB LED brackets for the sectors that can be switched from a table-top console. Should add to the immersion while ensuring that it will actually do the job.

Here's the basic layout:
map concept 20200116.jpg


Angel of Rust, please confirm: you are going to build this 72" x 72" War Map and bring it to Armada? If so we will make sure there is a good table space for it.

Some detail: it's possible the admirals will want some way of representing the grid of each sector. They may also want sector names and compass directions. For example, suppose the Admirals dispatch scout ship Ranger to the Lyra sector and Ranger reports the following:
  • One Kralien Inquisitor and six Battleships in grid A2, moving due south.
  • Two Torgoth Behemoths, two Leviathans, and two Goliaths in grid D4 moving southwest.

The Admirals would like to be able to set the minifigs to track this information.

As to the map sections being adjacent, that is a matter of convenience for the Admirals. When a fleet moves from Pleiades E3 to Gemini A3, will the Admirals want to slide the figures continuously to the next sector?

I'm going to continue this in the Persistent War thread.

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Angel of Rust

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat

AAR: Artemis Armada V Training Mission #2;

. . .

Captain if the TSN Gungnir signing off.



Thanks for the report!

Darrin

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat

 

Time to completion of simulation: 16min.
No crashes or problems to report with simulation

Additional information: My science officer estimates that it would take roughly 3 Torgoth missiles to destroy a single TSN landing craft. As stated previously the landing craft are very fast for what they are and if they are assaulting a Torgoth base with no other defenses the base will likely only get a single missile hit on one of the landing craft before the assault is under way.

Captain if the TSN Gungnir signing off.



Thank you for the fantastic feedback! Lots of details!

I did not really intend for the base to be able to shoot down the transports. I was curious if the Ximni/Arvonian fighters would be able to take down a transport, but after a little testing, it looks like the transports can close on the base even before the fighters can tear them apart.

However... with the new station features in the 2.7.4 release, I am tempted to play with setting "canShoot" and "canLaunchFighters" to OFF once a beacon has been deployed within 1000km. This provides an additional pseudo-reason to drop the beacons: they "jam" or disrupt the station defenses. 

(Which begs the question, "Why can't we use those beacons against enemy capital ships?", in which case... REASONS!)

notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #20 
I do feel like it adds a lot to the scenario to have to "clear the way" for the drop craft. I am now curious if you can just drop the beacon and let the drop ships fly past the bad guys and take the base without finishing off the baddies. Course since the bases would not likely be able to fend off a couple of Torgy ships by themselves, they would still have to be dealt with, but I am curious.


*edit*

So I did a quick run through the mission with a goal of not destroying a single enemy. Went well, though a few quirks. I used a scout with has...5 Beacons?

-The landing craft had no issues getting through the enemy forces/base defenses. However, the enemy vessels didnt really go after the landing craft and the movement paths of the enemy did not intersect with the landing craft.

-I launched a beacon at the arvonian base after bypassing all enemy/fighters and an odd thing happened; One of the landing craft "got lost" and wondered aimlessly similar as to when I launched two beacons at two different bases as described in my original report. I had to launch a second beacon to take the base, both landing craft went directly to enemy base.
    -Interesting note; the enemy fighters from the Arvonian base re-docked at
      the base when it was captured as they would with a surrendered carrier.

-I launched two beacons at one of the Torgoth base, four landing craft spawned and one went "lost" as described above. Base taken without further indecent.

-Final base (I picked up all previously used beacons)I launched....3 or four beacons. Many landing craft spawned, all made it to the final base and, unexpectedly, none got lost.

So there you go. For this mission at least, it is not required to neutralize the enemy vessels.

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http://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/immersion-bridge-build-in-progress-7335195?pid=1290158413
Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #21 

Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat
Im planning on 3d printing ships from the game files. I have most of them in STL, though the space stations are a little more challenging since they have floating parts. Likely this will mean a big box full of minis. I may look at simplifying things, aka a single Krelian to represent a wing of 5 etc.


Notsabbat, you might not need to print all of the minis. We are definitely hoping you will print minis for the TSN ships (player's side, including Escorts, Destroyers, Transports, etc.). We do not necessarily expect you to print all the minifigs for the enemy fleets. Of course I encourage you to print any enemy ships you want to print, but it is entirely possible that the Game Masters will deploy more enemies than you have printed. For that reason we will make a bucket (box?) of toy spaceships available to the Admirals, just in case.

Of course a figure that represents a fleet of ships could be useful. You might want to print Kralien Inquisitors. They are gigantic versions of the Kralien Dreadnought.


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Darrin

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat
I am now curious if you can just drop the beacon and let the drop ships fly past the bad guys and take the base without finishing off the baddies.


You can do that. The transports are fast enough to outfly anything on the map except maybe the enemy fighters. While this means the transports don't need much protection, I'm inclined to keep the current speed of the TSN transports for two reasons:

1) Terran capital ships have extremely fast warp drives compared to all other races. Why wouldn't their transports be similarly fast?

2) Waiting for the transports to close at normal speeds would be tedious and not particularly fun. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat

-The landing craft had no issues getting through the enemy forces/base defenses. However, the enemy vessels didnt really go after the landing craft and the movement paths of the enemy did not intersect with the landing craft.


I wanted to get the training mission out quickly so crews had time to practice. This meant I didn't spend a lot of time trying to optimize the enemy AI brain stacks. Or rather, I spent way too much time trying to figure out how to tell the Torgoth to defend their bases, couldn't get them to do anything, and eventually decided it wasn't worth the time investment. So I cut out the AI commands and just left the enemy AIs as-is. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by notsabbat

One of the landing craft "got lost" and wondered aimlessly similar as to when I launched two beacons at two different bases as described in my original report.


This is a problem with the AI pathfinding code and the accelerated speed on the transports. The pathfinding code gets confused if the ship is so fast that it "overshoots" where it thinks it was going. It attempts to turn towards the new path, but if the turn rate isn't set correctly, it overshoots again, tries to recorrect, and basically winds up flying a big loop to nowhere. There's an elaborate balancing act where I can try to tweak the speed and turn rate so it hopefully doesn't overshoot the pathfinding algorithm, but... it just takes too darned long to find that sweet spot. So I figured, the TSN Transport pilots are not, shall we say, the cream of the TSN Navy, so... yeah, sometimes they get lost, or the Navcomp goes haywire, or cosmic dust causes the Casimir induction coils to overheat on the warp drive. Anyway, if you give the transport enough time, it will (hopefully) loop back to where it was supposed to go. (Another one of those cost/benefit things... takes too darned long to fix, so I kludge it until it works more-often-than-not.) 


Angel of Rust

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Substelny



Notsabbat, you might not need to print all of the minis. We are definitely hoping you will print minis for the TSN ships (player's side, including Escorts, Destroyers, Transports, etc.). We do not necessarily expect you to print all the minifigs for the enemy fleets. Of course I encourage you to print any enemy ships you want to print, but it is entirely possible that the Game Masters will deploy more enemies than you have printed. For that reason we will make a bucket (box?) of toy spaceships available to the Admirals, just in case.

Of course a figure that represents a fleet of ships could be useful. You might want to print Kralien Inquisitors. They are gigantic versions of the Kralien Dreadnought.



If it is any use, the working layout I have for the map has each square on the map ('A3', 'C2', etc.) as 4.4 inches on a side. This dimension is very close to final as I will start cutting parts in the next two weeks.


notsabbat

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Reply with quote  #24 
Im likely going to print out as much as I can, though likely  using minis to represent fleets rather than individual vessels will be the way it ends up going. It will be good to have a way to differentiate multiples of elites like Torgoth, maybe stacking some disks under the base to represent additional ships.

4.4" is a pretty good amount of space. should be plenty of area to put ships into.

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-My continuing bridge build:
http://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/immersion-bridge-build-in-progress-7335195?pid=1290158413
DupeOfURL

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Reply with quote  #25 
notsabbat - MOST unusual!  On Saturday, when we were beta-testing v 2.7.5, the Arvonian fighters returned {as expected} and destroyed the base {as we were elsewhere}.  Caught Clavestone and I flat-footed, we are so used to fighters docking on surrendered carriers and not being a threat any more.  Our speculation was that once "converted", the base loses the docking bays 

May be because of different version, might be Darrin doing script adjustments may just be due to Gamma rays!  

Judging on that quadrant map*, it may behoove us to divvy the fleet {presuming all 18 available bridge slots are used} into 3 columns of 6 ships each and each battle group go "up" a column.  (leaving the Admiral waiting by his fax machine for updates) 

*See here, look above the pic of the admiral giving the finger to the minis  -->  https://artemis.forumchitchat.com/post/armada-v-the-persistent-war-10129694?&trail=45 





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DupeOfURL

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Reply with quote  #26 
Darrin - Eastern Front had enough bodies to do 2 ships aloft tonight  for testing All Your Base.  Names were left unchanged, both were Strongbows.  Ship 1 {Artemis} WAS able to drop Attract Wreck beacon.  However, Comms from 2nd ship {Intrepid} report having No Button.  Nota Bene Drones from a Torgoth base ARE sufficient to destroy a less-well-shielded transportErgo it is behooving that Science check transports' shield ratings and a warship remain near the base on "drone patrol".  This is a low energy usage scenario in which tubes, rear shields, warp and impulse may be reduced.*  {MAY be able to generate some power in this configuration}.  I was over ruled and Arvonian fighters were "terminated with extreme prejudice".  At one time the {2nd wave of?} transports were running a circle dangerously near a live mine that Intrepid had dropped while "dealing with" the Ximni presence**.  Oddly, Artemis attempted a Warp 4 Fly-by and did NOT trigger the mine.  

*Maneuver too, if you REALLY want to make Helm cry!  ;-) 
** Maybe they thought this the presence {wreck} they were to go near...?? 

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