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UltraZim

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Reply with quote  #1 
My crew and I have only been playing about a week before 2.0 came out and we love this game.  When version 2 came out with 3d I was so excited.  But I think that it was a little under executed.  I write cockpit displays for aircraft for a living and was a little let down with how the relative altitudes were missing.  Also missing was a indication of my vertical position besides a basic bar, tick marks on that bar would have been a great help.  Knowing the relative vertical position would help in navigation, captain commands to helm, and weapons deployment.

Is this going to be added for the future?
pupbrad

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Reply with quote  #2 
There have been several people who started looking into how to add those marks in via mods. Don't worry, your not alone in wishing it were a bit less ambiguous!

As for it Thom will add them in, there's been quite a few requests in the forums already, so he most likely will at some point.

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Captain of the USN Basroil.
"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." - Hoban Washburne
"Give me a ship to fly and I'll make it sit up and beg, roll over (but NEVER play dead), and even do the jitterbug if you so fancy." - Unknown
janx

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraZim
My crew and I have only been playing about a week before 2.0 came out and we love this game.  When version 2 came out with 3d I was so excited.  But I think that it was a little under executed.  I write cockpit displays for aircraft for a living and was a little let down with how the relative altitudes were missing.  Also missing was a indication of my vertical position besides a basic bar, tick marks on that bar would have been a great help.  Knowing the relative vertical position would help in navigation, captain commands to helm, and weapons deployment.

Is this going to be added for the future?


I smell an opportunity here.

Since you happen to design displays for aircraft for a living, that would kind of make you an expert.

Would you mind posting a few screen shots of what you think this altitude indicator should look like?

that would probably better inform the UI to get your feedback than, say mine, where I'd just be making it up.
UltraZim

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Reply with quote  #4 
I would love to, I can do some mock ups...It will have to be later today.
UltraZim

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Reply with quote  #5 

This is what I had in mind...

To keep the illusion that this is not altitude, but vertical position within a 3 dimensional space, and to keep the Trek-like nomenclature, vertical position is called mark.  The mark range would go from 0 to 500 and be referred to as such: "Helm, set course 180 mark 4" would be for the helm to change to bearing to 180 and set the vertical position to 400  or "Helm set Mark 1.5" (same bearing kept and vertical position dropped to 150) Keeping the single digit helps communications be clear when in noisy environments, but flexible enough with decimal to allow precision. 400 and 150 when said aloud can get muddled.

I have attached Helm and science pics that show an example of the vertical position display. They are rough so please be gentle.

On the helm there are tic marks at each of the 100 ranges, and the floating (moves up and down the bar) green arrow box show the precise value. (The green arrow and tics allow for glance readings, and the numbers allow for more precise adjustments)  Also the mark is displayed for objects that are either targeted by science or weapons, and in this example the DS1 station (100). So to command the helm, the navigator (Science) would say,  set course 220 mark 1

On the science display targets that have been scanned, space stations, and friendly ships would have vertical potion available on their radar icon and on the expanded info.

Lastly, vertical position of only space station, friendlies, and scanned objects would be known.  Asteroids, whales, monsters, anomalies, and neutral/enemy ships do not transmit their position and move around too much to have a known fix.  Possibly get it from scanning them...


Attached Images
png Science.png (92.45 KB, 73 views)
png Helm.png (305.19 KB, 47 views)

Stonefish

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Posts: 62
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraZim
to keep the Trek-like nomenclature, vertical position is called mark

Would be referred to as such: "Helm, set course 180 mark 4"


A) Don't do Trek unless you're going to do it right.
B) Nobody would actually say that unless they read this forum post, which they didn't.
C) Apart from that, sure, we might as well have an altitude gauge.
AdmlBaconStraps

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #7 
Wouldn't it be easier to just use another bearing-style circle oriented vertically?

That way the commands would be less confusing to issue, ie: Bearing 220 Mark 270, each being a degree on a circle like the current horizontal bearing.
UltraZim

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Reply with quote  #8 
That is how it should work, but since we cannot control our pitch at the moment. My intent was to command an altitude without referring to it as altitude. Like I said; Trek-like, not canon or even correct...This is just for fun. It works well for my crew.
pupbrad

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Reply with quote  #9 
I like your idea a lot zim! We need to get this in the game. Also, since this game isnt star trek cannon, we could use the mark system the way you proposed it and itd work just fine.

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Captain of the USN Basroil.
"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." - Hoban Washburne
"Give me a ship to fly and I'll make it sit up and beg, roll over (but NEVER play dead), and even do the jitterbug if you so fancy." - Unknown
Exedore

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Reply with quote  #10 
I completely agree.  I love that this extra dimension has been added, but it does need refinement.  When an enemy ship is scanned its altitude should be displayed.  How can this be done without any way to accurately measure vertical position?  The tactical value of this is huge.
AdmlBaconStraps

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
My intent was to command an altitude without referring to it as altitude


All good, I just figured the dual bearing style would be easier to use rather than an almost entirely different system for vertical headings. With the 3D movement as it is, you'd only have to implement a 180 degree vertical heading as well seeing as you can't flip the ship all the way around
Thorn

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Reply with quote  #12 
Along the same vein, why does Helm not have any forward facing radar/doppler/dradis? To avoid terrain such as asteroids, helm must switch to a forward view or glance at the main screen.. whiplash alert.

(didn't mean to hijack, thought it is relevant)

Thorn

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adembroski

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonefish
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraZim
to keep the Trek-like nomenclature, vertical position is called mark

Would be referred to as such: "Helm, set course 180 mark 4"


A) Don't do Trek unless you're going to do it right.
B) Nobody would actually say that unless they read this forum post, which they didn't.
C) Apart from that, sure, we might as well have an altitude gauge.


Two things...

First, Trek got it wrong, which is an advantage for Artemis. They can get it right... to some extent... simply by changing the phrase to "heading".

Second, the post-mark number does represent the relative pitch of the ship in relation to its current pitch, and we don't have pitch in Artemis. The altitude of the ship in Artemis is the best representation of it... so I don't think it's an unreasonable approximation. 

AdmlBaconStraps

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Along the same vein, why does Helm not have any forward facing radar/doppler/dradis? To avoid terrain such as asteroids, helm must switch to a forward view or glance at the main screen.. whiplash alert.


I guess it's only relevent to Z-Axis movement, but yeah.. Though our helmsman tend to navigate by mainscreen anyway, don't know about any other ones though..
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