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 Who would enjoy such a mod?
 ME!ME!ME!ME!ME! 4 100%
 What's Babylon 5? 0 0%
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Wookiemart

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Reply with quote  #1 
Is there anyone out there working on such a thing?

Arrew

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Reply with quote  #2 
I started looking into it. I really llike the Earth Gov capital ships and the starfuries. I started messing with the vessel data to make fighters but that's about it. If anyone does I'd love to see it.

Perhaps you need to be a certain age to know B5. Perhaps s reboot should be due [wink] .

Surprised no ones tried Mass Effect either.
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have thought about it myself. With Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica having mods (but not Star Wars? that seems an oversight too) I think it would be really neat to have Babylon 5 represented. And I'm guessing the ship models would be easy to find since Bab 5 started out with some of the earliest computer modeling software.

Unfortunately, I'm very much afraid that Artemis can't model the physics required for Babylon 5 style combat. Unlike Star Trek and Star Wars, which was modeled after fighter dogfights and naval ship battles, using technology to explain why they are able to handle that way, Babylon 5 was intentionally based on Newtonian physics. I got to thinking about how a Star Fury would have to handle and decided that Artemis probably isn't the place to implement that.

That said, a game making use of Whitestars and Minbari ships (not to mention Centauri, Vorlons and the Shadows) might be implementable. And NPC fighters could be controlled with a script, if there's enough processing power in the server to override the default behavior and force Newtonian physics onto it. You'd also want to select Jump Drive instead of Warp Drive. (Unless you treat Warp Drive as a sort of afterburner)

Honestly, you'd probably have to do it with Earth Force as the Kraliens. [biggrin] All the other alien races are faster and more powerful than Earth.

Wookiemart

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Reply with quote  #4 
I agree that this mod would require a massive overhaul of the physics currently in play. Heck the beam weapons alone would need to be very different as they were used more like a howitzer than a multi directional array.

Also if I recall, few if none of the species in B5 used energy shields, it was all armour. SO the current shield systems would need to be changed as well.

Jump gates have been implemented in other mods so we know those are possible.

The scale and speed of the ships would probably need to be reviewed as well as they felt a lot more sluggish in B5 than they are in Artemis.

As for Models I believe there was a Babylon 5 mod for the X3 game back in the day that had quite a bit of work done on that front. No clue however if those would be usable or not in Artemis.

Still it's nice to fantasize about such a mod even though it might be easier just to make a game from the ground up.
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #5 
Yeah, IIRC there was an exact quote from JMS about how Babylon 5's "defense grid" worked, and it was basically "we kill it before it gets close enough to kill us". It did appear as if incoming missiles or energy bolts could be intercepted, but a direct hit usually carved off large chunks of the hull.

And the fighters were very fast and maneuverable, but capital ships were large, slow and ponderous. As others have pointed out, in space, speed has nothing to do with mass, and large ships can go just as fast as tiny little fighters. However, accelerating and more importantly decelerating such mass DOES take more time, and thus capital ships typically move at a snail's pace, since they are usually starting from a relative stop.

It was pretty much one extreme or the other, when it came to manueverablility. Exceptions were the midsized ships like the Whitestar, and the Shadows, who seemed to bend the fabric of space pretty much as they pleased. [biggrin]

It might be fun to make a mod that just ignores the physics, or maybe speculates about future developments after Earth starts to improve on the Minbari and Shadow/Vorlon technologies.
ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #6 

Ignore this if you don't care about the physics, but I thought I would do some research and found out some cool things.

First of all, it's stated explicitly that Earth Force ships in Babylon 5 have no inertial dampening. Sheridan at one point is training his pilots and notes that they shouldn't be afraid to pull more G-forces than they can take as long as the autopilot can bring them out of it. Other aliens can take more G-forces. Since a human pilot today can take about 10 G's, I'm assuming the same is true of Sheridan's crew.

Accelerating at a constant 1g, you will reach 75% of the speed of light in one year. Relativity will then take over, and you'll be capped at 99.9999...% of the speed of light, no matter how long you take. I estimated how long it would take to get to 10% of the speed of light, based on a graph I saw on a web site, and came up with about 0.3 years, or 110 days.

So, to accelerate from a relative stop to 10% of the speed of light in a day, you would have to pull 110 G's. If you want to take only an hour to get to that speed, or a couple of hours, that's several thousand G's. At the highest G-force a human can take, it will take you 11 days to get to 10% of the speed of light -- and you'll be unconscious for the whole trip and probably dead by the end.

Since the ships in Star Trek can get from Earth to Jupiter in a matter of hours, this would put them travelling at about 5.5% of the speed of light if you assume "a matter of hours" means 10 hours. Less time would take much higher speeds. Just to say it, travel to Jupiter at 1g would take 6 days, particularly if you wanted to stop once you got there.

So clearly the ships in Star Trek are pulling about 50 G's as a conservative guess. Warp technology actually complicates this, as it can be used even at sublight speeds to boost perceived velocity, but I still think that we're talking about a ship that, if it were to show up in the Babylon 5 universe, would fly rings around their ships even at sublight speeds. Even the Minbari do not appear to have that much acceleration.

Again, I'm not saying this has anything to do with whether Artemis could be used to implement a Bablylon 5 mod, but I found it interesting and thought it could use posting. [biggrin]
Arrew

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Reply with quote  #7 
No shields, just hull and armour. Wander how that'd affect the game. I suppose you'd try and stay at range as much as possible. 
Wookiemart

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Reply with quote  #8 
It would definitely make for different play styles, and engineering's repair duties would be much more difficult
leaola

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Reply with quote  #9 
I would say you would need to get rid of beams on most ship as a lot of the weapons seem much more bullet like. would need to add many tubes or a rapid loading machine gun tube, with very high ammo counts and no guidance, so you could shoot down inc fire. then save beams for very close range def.
davisn456

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaola
I would say you would need to get rid of beams on most ship as a lot of the weapons seem much more bullet like. would need to add many tubes or a rapid loading machine gun tube, with very high ammo counts and no guidance, so you could shoot down inc fire. then save beams for very close range def.


B5 ships (as well as the station) used energy weapons primarily, just with various types. The beam weapons were mainly used for close range (as mentioned by leaola), and pulse weapons were used for longer range fire. They also used missiles, but I really only remember those being seen on planetary defense platforms and on star furies that were fitted as bombers. The larger ships (like omega-class destroyers) actually did have missile tubes, but I don't ever remember seeing them fired on the show. I'm assuming that they were loaded with nukes for planetary bombardment, or possibly had ship-to-ship missiles of some kind - and most likely they were VERY high yield.

So, no bullets. But, the majority of the energy weapons definitely looked more bullet-like than beams, so just adjusting the animation, lowering the damage, and increasing the firing rate of the beam weapons in Artemis should make it look pretty similar.
Longbowman1346

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrew
No shields, just hull and armour. Wander how that'd affect the game. I suppose you'd try and stay at range as much as possible. 


That is what the Galactica is.  In the BSG mod there is no way against having the shields so instead we took to calling it "ablative armor" to fit into the theme.  Not sure if it worked well or not as it was not coded into the mod.   As for the weaponry, the Galactica uses "bullets" or at least projectiles in its weapons. ....  and lots of them...  almost as screening effort.    No beams.  In the mod we increased the rate of fire to simulate the heavy amount of shooting it could do seeing that it had full 360 arc both in the X and Y axis' in the show.  

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Mike Substelny

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Reply with quote  #12 
Space Battleship Yamato would be utterly cool, and well suited to the Artemis it-takes-six-players-to-man-a-bridge scheme.
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ryleyra

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Reply with quote  #13 
In the artemis dat folder, there are a couple of image files that look like bullets. One has a single bullet, the other a double one. I have never tried substituting those for the beam graphic (which I only just recently found, see my Sector Extension mod for the name) but it might work.

You can't change the nature of the animation or its travel time, though, which is 0.2 seconds. You might make it look more like a bolt than a beam, but it will still act the same way. (And currently the beam clearly has a start and stop time and TRAVELS to the target, so either it's not light, or the target is at least 60,000 km away)

One way to simulate "armor" instead of "shields" would be to reduce playerShieldRechargeRate and enemyShieldRechargeRate in artemis.ini to 0.02. (Which is the minimum given, if it will go to 0 without crashing, set it to 0) You would still have shields (and putting power into them would "harden" them) but it would take far longer for them to regenerate. I'll note the old Galactica series called them "shields", but they were clearly armor plates that were deployed when activated. (Covering the main viewport)

clavestone

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Reply with quote  #14 
How about Space: Above and Beyond?

http://www.scifixtreme.com/wallpapers/file/3265/600x450/16:9/uss-saratoga_1933109737.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/seFVuoq.jpg

http://orig02.deviantart.net/4dd5/f/2008/067/f/3/hammerhead_remastered_by_tmc_deluxe.jpg

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Arrew

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Reply with quote  #15 
Beyond had a lot of potential, but it all seemed to happen on the last episode and no season two...
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